From: Scott Morris (smorris@ipexpert.com)
Date: Thu Nov 08 2007 - 22:06:25 ART
There are some rumors hopping around about a "higher level" certification
within Cisco but no details have really come out at this point. AFAIK, they
haven't pondered the idea of Apprentice, Journeyman, and Master although
that would be an interesting idea. But wouldn't it be confusing to be
considered an Apprentice CCIE? You're an expert, but we don't trust you.
:)
In general, I've always looked around with the less-than-qualified CCIEs and
simply shook my head. As a consultant, it actually leads to a lot of
contract opportunities to go fix the things they broke. :) As I've said
before though, no matter what industry you look at, you'll find good people
and bad people. That mix simply makes the world go 'round.
I'm not sure Cisco (or the industry) would go for an independent
establishment of a guild surrounding a single vendor's certification. But
it's an interesting thought!
Scott
-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis Dumont [mailto:dfdumont@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 7:17 PM
To: Scott Vermillion; swm@emanon.com; 'darth router'; M_A_Jones@dell.com
Cc: cisconuts@hotmail.com; joe@affirmedsystems.com; pauld@marshallcomm.com;
jlogginsccie@san.rr.com; tom.nohwa@gmail.com; ccielab@groupstudy.com; Leon
Adato; Marci Carpenter; Michael Carpenter
Subject: RE: CCIE Important Interview Quesition asked by Sunrise, Swiss
Back when I was a hiring mgr, I had a few questions I asked that had
multiple right answers. Case in point, "You have just typed, 'deb ip pack
det' in your session, but nothing shows up. What's wrong and how do you fix
it?"
Yeah there's LOTS of answers to this one, but I was looking for the thought
process, not the actual answer.
I don't see how 'lifting' router or fixing it still attached to the rack
applies, but I'll say this - I concur wholeheartedly with the other comments
in this thread around 'paper' CCIE's. I thought I'd never admit such a
thing existed, except I've interviewed too many of them. They couldn't
design there way out of a wet paper bag, and probably couldn't troubleshoot
an inverted 60-pin serial cable.
I think this points to an even more pervasive problem in the IT industry -
lack of governance, or more correctly of an admission process to the
industry.
Just because I can cram a Transcender or TestKing test puke, doesn't mean I
know anything about the technology. Quite frankly all certifications EXCEPT
the CCIE Practical exam are fundamentally flawed by being a multiple-choice
questionnaire. The correct answer appears in the test question simply for
the person to select - but I digress
I said this before on other forums, but I think WE need to decide what to do
with OUR industry. I think we need a guild, or some form of regulatory
body, like what Lawyers, Doctors and even CPA's go through to ENTER their
respective professions. We need people like Scott Morris, Linus Torvalds,
et. al. to be on the Board and to delineate how the rest of (that haven't
already proven our worth through years of
contributions) get into the Guild. I think a system that follows the
Apprentice, Journeyman, Master kind of hierarchy would work well and has
significant recent and historical validity.
What do YOU think? How do we either prevent less-than-qualified people from
taking our positions (or our sale), and/or how do we validate that we as a
person know what we are talking about and can be trusted?
Just my $0.02
Dennis Dumont
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