From: Scott Vermillion (scott_ccie_list@it-ag.com)
Date: Thu Nov 08 2007 - 17:43:28 ART
Yup, it's in and out an hour early for each CCIE earned. So you should just
be sitting at home and checking the mail for your paycheck every couple of
weeks Scott...
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Morris [mailto:swm@emanon.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 1:36 PM
To: 'darth router'; M_A_Jones@dell.com
Cc: cisconuts@hotmail.com; joe@affirmedsystems.com;
scott_ccie_list@it-ag.com; pauld@marshallcomm.com; jlogginsccie@san.rr.com;
tom.nohwa@gmail.com; ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: RE: CCIE Important Interview Quesition asked by Sunrise, Swiss
I can come in late and leave early???? DAMN IT. Nobody told me that part.
I'm outta here.
:)
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
darth router
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 1:32 PM
To: M_A_Jones@dell.com
Cc: cisconuts@hotmail.com; joe@affirmedsystems.com;
scott_ccie_list@it-ag.com; pauld@marshallcomm.com; jlogginsccie@san.rr.com;
tom.nohwa@gmail.com; ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: Re: CCIE Important Interview Quesition asked by Sunrise, Swiss
I know a 4xxx CCIE that could not answer basic BGP questions. Who cares?
Even if most networks use BGP, its simple implementation. Shit, I worked at
an ISP with a small 25k customers and our BGP was simple. That 4xxx CCIE had
a hard time doing punch downs. Why? Because he never does it. He is also one
of the first guys in the northwest to do a massive voice implementation
without Ciscos help. This was back in 2001. The guy is brilliant, but he
cant answer BGP questions worth a shit. I bet he can hit the Doc CD and
figure it out in 2 seconds if he needs to. My point is, your only as good as
what you work with on a regular basis. Good interviewers know this (I'm not
knocking anyone on this thread), and are not looking for a guy who can
answer all of the questions. On top of that, who knows what was on the CCIE
back when those guys took it, especially with the two day lab. Might have
been some simple ass setups compared to what we face today. Honestly I did
not have to get in depth on the CAM table, or stupid shit like ARP to pass
the CCIE lab. I am not saying that I don't know those things work, but
reciting seemingly simple things like that verbatim is not the end all, cure
all to being knowledgeable in interviews.
I like everyone else followed the vendor workbooks and did what I have to do
to pass that test. Passing to me involves fully knowing what/how to study.
Its strategy. If you can pass the lab, you can learn anything. I am also
forgetting much of what I did learn while I studied. Good luck to any of you
trying to retain everything you learned, and regurgitating it in interviews.
Some very smart people who do, cannot teach. And many who teach cannot do.
Ever seen any of the netacademy teachers, bootcamps, glabal knowledge
teachers? :P The CCIE to me just means you can come in late, and leave
early. Other than that its a certificate to whipe your ass with, or for
other people to take jabs at ya when you cant answer some basic question
they asked. :)
On 11/8/07, M_A_Jones@dell.com <M_A_Jones@dell.com> wrote:
>
> Well that being said, I think IQ testing tells a lot about appitude;
> rather then intelligence.
>
> Remember tests measure preperation, not appitude or intelligence for
> that matter.
>
> So its quite possibe to have a dumb= (low IQ) CCIE who passes because
> he was well prepared.
>
> Michael Jones
> Network Engineer
> Global Network Operations
> Dell Inc.
> 512.723.3268
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
> Of Cisco Nuts
> Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 8:48 PM
> To: Joseph Brunner; 'Scott Vermillion'; 'Paul Dardinski'; 'Jesse
> Loggins (CCIE#14661)'; 'tom nohwa'; 'Cisco certification'
> Subject: RE: CCIE Important Interview Quesition asked by Sunrise,
> Swiss
>
> I am sure not....
>
> At least from some folks who interviewed with Cisco.
>
> Using an IQ is/has no basis on what a person can do on the
> job...IMHO...!!
>
> Cheers!!
>
> > From: joe@affirmedsystems.com
> > To: scott_ccie_list@it-ag.com; pauld@marshallcomm.com;
> jlogginsccie@san.rr.com; tom.nohwa@gmail.com; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > Subject: RE: CCIE Important Interview Quesition asked by Sunrise,
> > Swiss
> > Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 17:50:22 -0500
> >
> > I found out today from someone that Cisco gives people IQ Tests
> > before
>
> > offering employment...
> >
> > Can anyone confirm this? and for what position?
> >
> > Maybe we can let brains settle it...
> >
> > Would you want a guy with a 99 IQ who knows what a console port is
> > and
>
> > Config-register 0x2142
> >
> > Or a guy with a newly minted CCIE and a 164 IQ (sure some guy in
> > India
>
> > Has both as I'm writing this)
> >
> > -joe
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
> > Of Scott Vermillion
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 1:47 PM
> > To: 'Paul Dardinski'; 'Jesse Loggins (CCIE#14661)'; 'tom nohwa';
> > 'Cisco certification'
> > Subject: RE: CCIE Important Interview Quesition asked by Sunrise,
> > Swiss
> >
> > Hey Paul,
> >
> > I have to agree with your closing paragraph; if I have my hiring
> > manager
> hat
> > on and a CCIE with minimal work history came before me, he would
> > still
>
> > only be considered for an entry-level position (granted, his salary
> > offer would be at the top of whatever that entry-level range was).
> > I would offer a fast-track career progression provided his
> > performance showed the
> real-world
> > stuff was within the candidates grasp (it simply isn't for some
> > folks,
>
> > no matter what cert they may hold) and was taking hold.
> >
> > But don't willy-nilly single out Dynamips. Is a candidate who uses
> > rack rentals in any different a situation? Frankly, I consider it
> > to be a reasonable assumption that if someone can successfully
> > navigate the lab, they can figure out how to cable stuff up pretty
quickly.
> > Again, though,
> if
> > that's something a CCIE needs to learn, then they can expect to only
> receive
> > an offer of an entry-level position. It's an expert certification
> > and
>
> > non-experts who obtain it need to understand they have dues yet to
> > be paid outside of the lab. It aint no short-cut as far as I'm
> concerned...
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Scott
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
> > Of
> Paul
> > Dardinski
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 9:25 AM
> > To: Jesse Loggins (CCIE#14661); tom nohwa; Cisco certification
> > Subject: RE: CCIE Important Interview Quesition asked by Sunrise,
> > Swiss
> >
> > In the end it is inconceivable that a ccie (no matter what era)
> > can't tell you how a cam table is populated. Alternatively, with
> > the advent
>
> > of dynamips, etc, I guess the era of actually having to cable up
> > equipment is also mostly over. The cert unfortunately is going to be
> > in jeopardy over time as any barrier to entry falls away and it
> > becomes just another lab exercise vs really becoming a true expert
> > in the underlying technologies. I assume that over time Cisco will
> > respond with an increasing level of equipment and interconnections
> > of technology to overcome some of this.
> >
> > As to CCIE's with <1year experience etc....shame on the company that
> > expects a whole lot. Certainly they have to understand the guy
> > wouldn't be worth much compared to a more seasoned individual and
> > compensation surely would/should reflect that.
> >
> > PD (#16842)
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
> > Of Jesse Loggins (CCIE#14661)
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 5:08 PM
> > To: tom nohwa; Cisco certification
> > Subject: Re: CCIE Important Interview Quesition asked by Sunrise,
> > Swiss
> >
> > As a CCIE who has the responsibility of interviewing other CCIE's
> > here
>
> > is my take. One of the things that I have run across allot lately,
> > are
>
> > CCIE's with no practical experience. In my opinion this is partly
> > because Lab Prep material is so prevalent and easily attainable. I
> > have come across many CCIE's that could not tell me how to
> > physically connect to a router to configure it. That is they had no
> > idea what the
>
> > console port is. Another one is not knowing how to upgrade the IOS
> > on a router. Also it is amazing how many CCIE's don't understand IP,
> > as in how things work. For instance one of my interview questions it
> > to ask a CCIE candidate to explain to me how traceroute works. Or
> > another
>
> > is to explain the significance of MTU in a real world network. Most
> > of the time I get an incorrect response. Why do I ask these questions?
>
> > Because to me it shows how much real world experience a
> >
> > candidate has. In my opinion a CCIE candidate should have at least 2
> > to
> > 5
> > years of experience before pursuing a CCIE. They should also work
> > there way from CCNA to CCNP and then to CCIE, learning the
> > technologies as they go
> >
> > (not just using test prep material). Reading all of the books in the
> > suggested CCIE reading list for your specific track is also another
> > thing that I would suggest. And it never hurts to read through the
> > RFC's (in my opinion as a CCIE your should do this no questions). I
> > say this all to suggest that the interviewer that asked you these
> > questions may have had the same purpose in mind. In my opinion the
> > number of inexperienced CCIE's on the market right now are really
> > hurting the credibility of our coveted certification. That seems to
> > be
>
> > the reason why many of us are starting to pursue multiple CCIE's to
> > distinguish ourselves. In the past multi-CCIE's where rare, but now
> > they seem to have become a necessary thing. I say this as I prepare
> > to
>
> > take the Service Provider CCIE lab in a few days.
> >
> > As a side note I asked the last CCIE that I interviewed (he was a
> > recently cert'd CCIE) to explain to me how the mac-address-table
> > (CAM table for you old salty CCIE's :-) ) on a switch is populated.
> > His response (this came
> >
> > after numerous questions he could no answer) was "Dude have you been
> > studying lately?", I laughed and told him Thanks for his time.
> >
> >
> > Jesse Loggins
> > CCIE #14661 (R&S)
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "tom nohwa" <tom.nohwa@gmail.com>
> > To: "Cisco certification" <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> > Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 4:34 AM
> > Subject: CCIE Important Interview Quesition asked by Sunrise, Swiss
> >
> >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > This is to explain you my job search experience happened in Swiss
> > after
> > > acquiring my CCIE. I am not sure how many of you have come across
> > similar
> > > situation.
> > >
> > > I started my CCIE journey in the beginning of last year and passed
> > > the
> > lab
> > > a
> > > few months ago. Later, I started contacting the ISPs, most of
> > > them
> > never
> > > responded. I got an interview from one ISP which is the second
> > largest
> > > ISP
> > > (Sunrise) in Swiss. During the interview, they did not ask any
> > > tech
>
> > > questions, instead they asked whether I would be *able to lift
> > > the
> > router
> > > and fix it in the rack.* I was astonished to hear this question,
> > > but
> > I
> > > said
> > > I would do it during the emergency situation. Then, I was asked to
> > wait
> > > for few weeks. Few weeks later, I got the response that my French
> > skill
> > > was very poor.
> > >
> > > I have now the following questions to my fellow experts:
> > >
> > > 1. I have seen only the English version of Cisco IOS. Do you
> > > know
> > any
> > > French version?
> > > 2. Having 10+ years experience in networking and holding a degree
> > > in networking from the world famous university, I was never asked
> > > to
> > answer
> > > any
> > > tech question. Instead, question like lifting the router and
> > > fixing
> > it in
> > > the rack, always irritate me. Is this type of question asked to
> > > irritate/insult the CCIE?
> > > 3. Is it normal that companies don't respond to an CCIE's job
> > > applications (of course my nationality is mentioned in my CV)?
> > >
> > > Please let me know your comments as I hear that CCIEs are highly
> > respected
> > > everywhere.
> > >
> > > Best,
> > > Joe.
> > >
> > >
> > ____________________________________________________________________
> > __
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> > > 11/5/2007 4:36 AM
> >
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