From: darth router (darklordrouter@gmail.com)
Date: Thu Nov 08 2007 - 17:49:48 ART
Thats why Scott has so much time to play D&D. :P
On 11/8/07, Scott Vermillion <scott_ccie_list@it-ag.com> wrote:
>
> Yup, it's in and out an hour early for each CCIE earned. So you should
> just
> be sitting at home and checking the mail for your paycheck every couple of
> weeks Scott...
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott Morris [mailto:swm@emanon.com]
> Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 1:36 PM
> To: 'darth router'; M_A_Jones@dell.com
> Cc: cisconuts@hotmail.com; joe@affirmedsystems.com;
> scott_ccie_list@it-ag.com; pauld@marshallcomm.com; jlogginsccie@san.rr.com
> ;
> tom.nohwa@gmail.com; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: RE: CCIE Important Interview Quesition asked by Sunrise, Swiss
>
> I can come in late and leave early???? DAMN IT. Nobody told me that part.
>
> I'm outta here.
>
> :)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> darth router
> Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 1:32 PM
> To: M_A_Jones@dell.com
> Cc: cisconuts@hotmail.com; joe@affirmedsystems.com;
> scott_ccie_list@it-ag.com; pauld@marshallcomm.com; jlogginsccie@san.rr.com
> ;
> tom.nohwa@gmail.com; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: Re: CCIE Important Interview Quesition asked by Sunrise, Swiss
>
> I know a 4xxx CCIE that could not answer basic BGP questions. Who cares?
> Even if most networks use BGP, its simple implementation. Shit, I worked
> at
> an ISP with a small 25k customers and our BGP was simple. That 4xxx CCIE
> had
> a hard time doing punch downs. Why? Because he never does it. He is also
> one
> of the first guys in the northwest to do a massive voice implementation
> without Ciscos help. This was back in 2001. The guy is brilliant, but he
> cant answer BGP questions worth a shit. I bet he can hit the Doc CD and
> figure it out in 2 seconds if he needs to. My point is, your only as good
> as
> what you work with on a regular basis. Good interviewers know this (I'm
> not
> knocking anyone on this thread), and are not looking for a guy who can
> answer all of the questions. On top of that, who knows what was on the
> CCIE
> back when those guys took it, especially with the two day lab. Might have
> been some simple ass setups compared to what we face today. Honestly I did
> not have to get in depth on the CAM table, or stupid shit like ARP to pass
> the CCIE lab. I am not saying that I don't know those things work, but
> reciting seemingly simple things like that verbatim is not the end all,
> cure
> all to being knowledgeable in interviews.
> I like everyone else followed the vendor workbooks and did what I have to
> do
> to pass that test. Passing to me involves fully knowing what/how to study.
> Its strategy. If you can pass the lab, you can learn anything. I am also
> forgetting much of what I did learn while I studied. Good luck to any of
> you
> trying to retain everything you learned, and regurgitating it in
> interviews.
> Some very smart people who do, cannot teach. And many who teach cannot do.
> Ever seen any of the netacademy teachers, bootcamps, glabal knowledge
> teachers? :P The CCIE to me just means you can come in late, and leave
> early. Other than that its a certificate to whipe your ass with, or for
> other people to take jabs at ya when you cant answer some basic question
> they asked. :)
>
> On 11/8/07, M_A_Jones@dell.com <M_A_Jones@dell.com> wrote:
> >
> > Well that being said, I think IQ testing tells a lot about appitude;
> > rather then intelligence.
> >
> > Remember tests measure preperation, not appitude or intelligence for
> > that matter.
> >
> > So its quite possibe to have a dumb= (low IQ) CCIE who passes because
> > he was well prepared.
> >
> > Michael Jones
> > Network Engineer
> > Global Network Operations
> > Dell Inc.
> > 512.723.3268
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
> > Of Cisco Nuts
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 8:48 PM
> > To: Joseph Brunner; 'Scott Vermillion'; 'Paul Dardinski'; 'Jesse
> > Loggins (CCIE#14661)'; 'tom nohwa'; 'Cisco certification'
> > Subject: RE: CCIE Important Interview Quesition asked by Sunrise,
> > Swiss
> >
> > I am sure not....
> >
> > At least from some folks who interviewed with Cisco.
> >
> > Using an IQ is/has no basis on what a person can do on the
> > job...IMHO...!!
> >
> > Cheers!!
> >
> > > From: joe@affirmedsystems.com
> > > To: scott_ccie_list@it-ag.com; pauld@marshallcomm.com;
> > jlogginsccie@san.rr.com; tom.nohwa@gmail.com; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > > Subject: RE: CCIE Important Interview Quesition asked by Sunrise,
> > > Swiss
> > > Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 17:50:22 -0500
> > >
> > > I found out today from someone that Cisco gives people IQ Tests
> > > before
> >
> > > offering employment...
> > >
> > > Can anyone confirm this? and for what position?
> > >
> > > Maybe we can let brains settle it...
> > >
> > > Would you want a guy with a 99 IQ who knows what a console port is
> > > and
> >
> > > Config-register 0x2142
> > >
> > > Or a guy with a newly minted CCIE and a 164 IQ (sure some guy in
> > > India
> >
> > > Has both as I'm writing this)
> > >
> > > -joe
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
> > > Of Scott Vermillion
> > > Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 1:47 PM
> > > To: 'Paul Dardinski'; 'Jesse Loggins (CCIE#14661)'; 'tom nohwa';
> > > 'Cisco certification'
> > > Subject: RE: CCIE Important Interview Quesition asked by Sunrise,
> > > Swiss
> > >
> > > Hey Paul,
> > >
> > > I have to agree with your closing paragraph; if I have my hiring
> > > manager
> > hat
> > > on and a CCIE with minimal work history came before me, he would
> > > still
> >
> > > only be considered for an entry-level position (granted, his salary
> > > offer would be at the top of whatever that entry-level range was).
> > > I would offer a fast-track career progression provided his
> > > performance showed the
> > real-world
> > > stuff was within the candidates grasp (it simply isn't for some
> > > folks,
> >
> > > no matter what cert they may hold) and was taking hold.
> > >
> > > But don't willy-nilly single out Dynamips. Is a candidate who uses
> > > rack rentals in any different a situation? Frankly, I consider it
> > > to be a reasonable assumption that if someone can successfully
> > > navigate the lab, they can figure out how to cable stuff up pretty
> quickly.
> > > Again, though,
> > if
> > > that's something a CCIE needs to learn, then they can expect to only
> > receive
> > > an offer of an entry-level position. It's an expert certification
> > > and
> >
> > > non-experts who obtain it need to understand they have dues yet to
> > > be paid outside of the lab. It aint no short-cut as far as I'm
> > concerned...
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Scott
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
> > > Of
> > Paul
> > > Dardinski
> > > Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 9:25 AM
> > > To: Jesse Loggins (CCIE#14661); tom nohwa; Cisco certification
> > > Subject: RE: CCIE Important Interview Quesition asked by Sunrise,
> > > Swiss
> > >
> > > In the end it is inconceivable that a ccie (no matter what era)
> > > can't tell you how a cam table is populated. Alternatively, with
> > > the advent
> >
> > > of dynamips, etc, I guess the era of actually having to cable up
> > > equipment is also mostly over. The cert unfortunately is going to be
> > > in jeopardy over time as any barrier to entry falls away and it
> > > becomes just another lab exercise vs really becoming a true expert
> > > in the underlying technologies. I assume that over time Cisco will
> > > respond with an increasing level of equipment and interconnections
> > > of technology to overcome some of this.
> > >
> > > As to CCIE's with <1year experience etc....shame on the company that
> > > expects a whole lot. Certainly they have to understand the guy
> > > wouldn't be worth much compared to a more seasoned individual and
> > > compensation surely would/should reflect that.
> > >
> > > PD (#16842)
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
> > > Of Jesse Loggins (CCIE#14661)
> > > Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 5:08 PM
> > > To: tom nohwa; Cisco certification
> > > Subject: Re: CCIE Important Interview Quesition asked by Sunrise,
> > > Swiss
> > >
> > > As a CCIE who has the responsibility of interviewing other CCIE's
> > > here
> >
> > > is my take. One of the things that I have run across allot lately,
> > > are
> >
> > > CCIE's with no practical experience. In my opinion this is partly
> > > because Lab Prep material is so prevalent and easily attainable. I
> > > have come across many CCIE's that could not tell me how to
> > > physically connect to a router to configure it. That is they had no
> > > idea what the
> >
> > > console port is. Another one is not knowing how to upgrade the IOS
> > > on a router. Also it is amazing how many CCIE's don't understand IP,
> > > as in how things work. For instance one of my interview questions it
> > > to ask a CCIE candidate to explain to me how traceroute works. Or
> > > another
> >
> > > is to explain the significance of MTU in a real world network. Most
> > > of the time I get an incorrect response. Why do I ask these questions?
> >
> > > Because to me it shows how much real world experience a
> > >
> > > candidate has. In my opinion a CCIE candidate should have at least 2
> > > to
> > > 5
> > > years of experience before pursuing a CCIE. They should also work
> > > there way from CCNA to CCNP and then to CCIE, learning the
> > > technologies as they go
> > >
> > > (not just using test prep material). Reading all of the books in the
> > > suggested CCIE reading list for your specific track is also another
> > > thing that I would suggest. And it never hurts to read through the
> > > RFC's (in my opinion as a CCIE your should do this no questions). I
> > > say this all to suggest that the interviewer that asked you these
> > > questions may have had the same purpose in mind. In my opinion the
> > > number of inexperienced CCIE's on the market right now are really
> > > hurting the credibility of our coveted certification. That seems to
> > > be
> >
> > > the reason why many of us are starting to pursue multiple CCIE's to
> > > distinguish ourselves. In the past multi-CCIE's where rare, but now
> > > they seem to have become a necessary thing. I say this as I prepare
> > > to
> >
> > > take the Service Provider CCIE lab in a few days.
> > >
> > > As a side note I asked the last CCIE that I interviewed (he was a
> > > recently cert'd CCIE) to explain to me how the mac-address-table
> > > (CAM table for you old salty CCIE's :-) ) on a switch is populated.
> > > His response (this came
> > >
> > > after numerous questions he could no answer) was "Dude have you been
> > > studying lately?", I laughed and told him Thanks for his time.
> > >
> > >
> > > Jesse Loggins
> > > CCIE #14661 (R&S)
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "tom nohwa" <tom.nohwa@gmail.com>
> > > To: "Cisco certification" <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> > > Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 4:34 AM
> > > Subject: CCIE Important Interview Quesition asked by Sunrise, Swiss
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hi all,
> > > >
> > > > This is to explain you my job search experience happened in Swiss
> > > after
> > > > acquiring my CCIE. I am not sure how many of you have come across
> > > similar
> > > > situation.
> > > >
> > > > I started my CCIE journey in the beginning of last year and passed
> > > > the
> > > lab
> > > > a
> > > > few months ago. Later, I started contacting the ISPs, most of
> > > > them
> > > never
> > > > responded. I got an interview from one ISP which is the second
> > > largest
> > > > ISP
> > > > (Sunrise) in Swiss. During the interview, they did not ask any
> > > > tech
> >
> > > > questions, instead they asked whether I would be *able to lift
> > > > the
> > > router
> > > > and fix it in the rack.* I was astonished to hear this question,
> > > > but
> > > I
> > > > said
> > > > I would do it during the emergency situation. Then, I was asked to
> > > wait
> > > > for few weeks. Few weeks later, I got the response that my French
> > > skill
> > > > was very poor.
> > > >
> > > > I have now the following questions to my fellow experts:
> > > >
> > > > 1. I have seen only the English version of Cisco IOS. Do you
> > > > know
> > > any
> > > > French version?
> > > > 2. Having 10+ years experience in networking and holding a degree
> > > > in networking from the world famous university, I was never asked
> > > > to
> > > answer
> > > > any
> > > > tech question. Instead, question like lifting the router and
> > > > fixing
> > > it in
> > > > the rack, always irritate me. Is this type of question asked to
> > > > irritate/insult the CCIE?
> > > > 3. Is it normal that companies don't respond to an CCIE's job
> > > > applications (of course my nationality is mentioned in my CV)?
> > > >
> > > > Please let me know your comments as I hear that CCIEs are highly
> > > respected
> > > > everywhere.
> > > >
> > > > Best,
> > > > Joe.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > ____________________________________________________________________
> > > __
> > > _
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