From: William Nellis (nellis_iv@yahoo.com)
Date: Thu Nov 08 2007 - 01:46:29 ART
Come on you guys... Cisco giving IQ Tests....
1) First off... they don't. MS doesn't. Why??? If they did they'd likely be sued. Now, pseudo IQ tests via some of the MS challenge questions... thats fair game. Drug tests, fair.
2) Second off. Should a CCIE be able to Rack/Power/Cable a box? Yes. He shouldn't have to usually. He should know how to, Period. If I have a person who says he is a CCIE working for me, and me or a customer says "this is broken and needs to be fixed", I don't need some guy looking at me like hes too good. I need it fixed, period. Look at the happy Cisco Cert Triangle. CCIE is built on skills assumed knowledge.
3) Current lab is good. If you can pass the lab then you've made an accomplishment.
4) Employers hire right fit for the job. CCIE may help get your foot in the door. Except for Consulting firms, which gain implicit value in being able to "resell" your certification.
-------------------------------------------------------
r/s
William Nellis IV
nellis_iv@yahoo.com
----- Original Message ----
From: Cisco Nuts <cisconuts@hotmail.com>
To: Joseph Brunner <joe@affirmedsystems.com>; Scott Vermillion <scott_ccie_list@it-ag.com>; Paul Dardinski <pauld@marshallcomm.com>; Jesse Loggins (CCIE#14661) <jlogginsccie@san.rr.com>; tom nohwa <tom.nohwa@gmail.com>; Cisco certification <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 7, 2007 7:48:25 PM
Subject: RE: CCIE Important Interview Quesition asked by Sunrise, Swiss
I am sure not....
At least from some folks who interviewed with Cisco.
Using an IQ is/has no basis on what a person can do on the job...IMHO...!!
Cheers!!
> From: joe@affirmedsystems.com
> To: scott_ccie_list@it-ag.com; pauld@marshallcomm.com;
jlogginsccie@san.rr.com; tom.nohwa@gmail.com; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: RE: CCIE Important Interview Quesition asked by Sunrise, Swiss
> Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 17:50:22 -0500
>
> I found out today from someone that Cisco gives people IQ Tests before
> offering employment...
>
> Can anyone confirm this? and for what position?
>
> Maybe we can let brains settle it...
>
> Would you want a guy with a 99 IQ who knows what a console port is and
> Config-register 0x2142
>
> Or a guy with a newly minted CCIE and a 164 IQ (sure some guy in India
> Has both as I'm writing this)
>
> -joe
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> Scott Vermillion
> Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 1:47 PM
> To: 'Paul Dardinski'; 'Jesse Loggins (CCIE#14661)'; 'tom nohwa'; 'Cisco
> certification'
> Subject: RE: CCIE Important Interview Quesition asked by Sunrise, Swiss
>
> Hey Paul,
>
> I have to agree with your closing paragraph; if I have my hiring manager
hat
> on and a CCIE with minimal work history came before me, he would still only
> be considered for an entry-level position (granted, his salary offer would
> be at the top of whatever that entry-level range was). I would offer a
> fast-track career progression provided his performance showed the
real-world
> stuff was within the candidates grasp (it simply isn't for some folks, no
> matter what cert they may hold) and was taking hold.
>
> But don't willy-nilly single out Dynamips. Is a candidate who uses rack
> rentals in any different a situation? Frankly, I consider it to be a
> reasonable assumption that if someone can successfully navigate the lab,
> they can figure out how to cable stuff up pretty quickly. Again, though,
if
> that's something a CCIE needs to learn, then they can expect to only
receive
> an offer of an entry-level position. It's an expert certification and
> non-experts who obtain it need to understand they have dues yet to be paid
> outside of the lab. It aint no short-cut as far as I'm concerned...
>
> Regards,
>
> Scott
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
Paul
> Dardinski
> Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 9:25 AM
> To: Jesse Loggins (CCIE#14661); tom nohwa; Cisco certification
> Subject: RE: CCIE Important Interview Quesition asked by Sunrise, Swiss
>
> In the end it is inconceivable that a ccie (no matter what era) can't
> tell you how a cam table is populated. Alternatively, with the advent
> of dynamips, etc, I guess the era of actually having to cable up
> equipment is also mostly over. The cert unfortunately is going to be in
> jeopardy over time as any barrier to entry falls away and it becomes
> just another lab exercise vs really becoming a true expert in the
> underlying technologies. I assume that over time Cisco will respond with
> an increasing level of equipment and interconnections of technology to
> overcome some of this.
>
> As to CCIE's with <1year experience etc....shame on the company that
> expects a whole lot. Certainly they have to understand the guy wouldn't
> be worth much compared to a more seasoned individual and compensation
> surely would/should reflect that.
>
> PD (#16842)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> Jesse Loggins (CCIE#14661)
> Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 5:08 PM
> To: tom nohwa; Cisco certification
> Subject: Re: CCIE Important Interview Quesition asked by Sunrise, Swiss
>
> As a CCIE who has the responsibility of interviewing other CCIE's here
> is my
> take. One of the things that I have run across allot lately, are CCIE's
> with
> no practical experience. In my opinion this is partly because Lab Prep
> material is so prevalent and easily attainable. I have come across many
> CCIE's that could not tell me how to physically connect to a router to
> configure it. That is they had no idea what the console port is. Another
> one
> is not knowing how to upgrade the IOS on a router. Also it is amazing
> how
> many CCIE's don't understand IP, as in how things work. For instance one
> of
> my interview questions it to ask a CCIE candidate to explain to me how
> traceroute works. Or another is to explain the significance of MTU in a
> real
> world network. Most of the time I get an incorrect response. Why do I
> ask
> these questions? Because to me it shows how much real world experience a
>
> candidate has. In my opinion a CCIE candidate should have at least 2 to
> 5
> years of experience before pursuing a CCIE. They should also work there
> way
> from CCNA to CCNP and then to CCIE, learning the technologies as they go
>
> (not just using test prep material). Reading all of the books in the
> suggested CCIE reading list for your specific track is also another
> thing
> that I would suggest. And it never hurts to read through the RFC's (in
> my
> opinion as a CCIE your should do this no questions). I say this all to
> suggest that the interviewer that asked you these questions may have had
> the
> same purpose in mind. In my opinion the number of inexperienced CCIE's
> on
> the market right now are really hurting the credibility of our coveted
> certification. That seems to be the reason why many of us are starting
> to
> pursue multiple CCIE's to distinguish ourselves. In the past
> multi-CCIE's
> where rare, but now they seem to have become a necessary thing. I say
> this
> as I prepare to take the Service Provider CCIE lab in a few days.
>
> As a side note I asked the last CCIE that I interviewed (he was a
> recently
> cert'd CCIE) to explain to me how the mac-address-table (CAM table for
> you
> old salty CCIE's :-) ) on a switch is populated. His response (this came
>
> after numerous questions he could no answer) was "Dude have you been
> studying lately?", I laughed and told him Thanks for his time.
>
>
> Jesse Loggins
> CCIE #14661 (R&S)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "tom nohwa" <tom.nohwa@gmail.com>
> To: "Cisco certification" <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 4:34 AM
> Subject: CCIE Important Interview Quesition asked by Sunrise, Swiss
>
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > This is to explain you my job search experience happened in Swiss
> after
> > acquiring my CCIE. I am not sure how many of you have come across
> similar
> > situation.
> >
> > I started my CCIE journey in the beginning of last year and passed the
> lab
> > a
> > few months ago. Later, I started contacting the ISPs, most of them
> never
> > responded. I got an interview from one ISP which is the second
> largest
> > ISP
> > (Sunrise) in Swiss. During the interview, they did not ask any tech
> > questions, instead they asked whether I would be *able to lift the
> router
> > and fix it in the rack.* I was astonished to hear this question, but
> I
> > said
> > I would do it during the emergency situation. Then, I was asked to
> wait
> > for few weeks. Few weeks later, I got the response that my French
> skill
> > was very poor.
> >
> > I have now the following questions to my fellow experts:
> >
> > 1. I have seen only the English version of Cisco IOS. Do you know
> any
> > French version?
> > 2. Having 10+ years experience in networking and holding a degree in
> > networking from the world famous university, I was never asked to
> answer
> > any
> > tech question. Instead, question like lifting the router and fixing
> it in
> > the rack, always irritate me. Is this type of question asked to
> > irritate/insult the CCIE?
> > 3. Is it normal that companies don't respond to an CCIE's job
> > applications
> > (of course my nationality is mentioned in my CV)?
> >
> > Please let me know your comments as I hear that CCIEs are highly
> respected
> > everywhere.
> >
> > Best,
> > Joe.
> >
> >
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