From: R.S CCIE (r.s.cciestudy@gmail.com)
Date: Wed Nov 07 2007 - 23:10:23 ART
Jesse,
[quote]
if you are a CCIE and you walk in the door and you demand a 6 figure salary
......... I'm sure you can
fill in the rest.
[/quote]
What if someone walks in the door with CCIE r/s asks for the pay(NOT 6
figures) just right between a CCNP and CCIE. Will you give him a chance?
:-)
On 11/7/07, Jesse Loggins (CCIE#14661) <jlogginsccie@san.rr.com> wrote:
>
> Unfortunately I think you misunderstand the point that I am trying to
> make.
> The original question as I understood it was why would an employer ask
> such
> simple questions in an interview. I then went on to explain why in
> interviews
> I don't jump direct to advanced questions. I then further went on to give
> my
> experiences as a CCIE who has interviewed multiple other CCIE's (some
> good,
> some bad). As far as attacking someone's accomplishments that was not my
> aim.
> I took the same CCIE as you, maybe not the same lab questions but in
> general
> the process was the same so I understand how difficult it is. With that
> said I
> can also see where the system could be exploited, and am only admitting
> that
> sometimes it is. My further comments where only to try to convince
> some to
> consider their experience level before committing to attaining CCIE.
>
> As a side note when I ask in an interview "How do you rate yourself on a
> scale
> of 1 to 10 in your knowledge of BGP?", and your response is an 11 then I
> expect you to answer some basic and not so basic questions. Not respond to
> me
> after I ask the questions "Dude, have you been studying? I forgot most of
> this
> stuff after I took the lab."
>
> Because to me that says that: You (the individual making the
> statement) are
> overly confident = This could make you more prone to mistakes. I'm not
> sure
> about where you work, but where I am mistakes cause outages and outages
> cost
> customers money and lots of it. The one thing that pursuing my first CCIE
> taught me was that I still had a lot to learn in the grand scheme of
> Networking and there is no way to possibly know it all. But all of
> networking
> (at least in recent times) is held together by a common thread and that is
> IP,
> thus I would expect a CCIE to know that subject very well.
>
> Obviously all of this is just my opinion. But as long as I am part of the
> interview process at the company that I work for, if you are a CCIE and
> you
> walk in the door and you demand a 6 figure salary ......... I'm sure you
> can
> fill in the rest.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: joh willi
> To: Paul Dardinski
> Cc: Jesse Loggins (CCIE#14661) ; tom nohwa ; Cisco certification
> Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 10:12 AM
> Subject: Re: CCIE Important Interview Quesition asked by Sunrise, Swiss
>
>
> Hi Jesse & Paul,
>
> I don't agree with your views. In this thread, you are trying to degrade
> the achievement of new CCIEs. CCIE is a prgramme offered by CISCO to the
> networking experts, not networking technicians. Being a CCIE, I know how
> it
> is difficult to pass the lab. Even if you use dynamips, don't know
> physical
> cabling, don't understand the technology, it is impossible to setup the
> dynamips configuration. I assume CISCO already knows about that. There
> are
> some people who are envy on the the growth of CCIE numbers, are trying to
> say
> that the value of ccie has come down. CCIE has still value in the market.
> That is the reason why many people are trying and getting the numbers. ALL
> CCIEs ARE WORTH.
>
> I know that many people including myself who have done research in
> networking, have done CCIE. It does not mean that we should know how to
> reset/recover the password of a router. Nobody knows everything. If you
> expect that the CCIEs should know howto:
>
> - lift the router and fix it in the rack
> - reset/upgrade the password
> - upgrade the ios
>
> then
>
> - what is the role of CCNA technicians?
> - why Cisco maintains support database?
> - why doc cd?.
>
> Connecting the router to the console can be done by anyone. The
> manual/document will explain you about that. If you have system
> experience,
> you can do it.
>
> Please don't talk like technicians and respect the hard work
>
> If you expect that CCIEs should know packet level interpretation, then
> Cisco
> should introduce the entry qualification. That is,
> those who want to appear for CCIE exam, should have:
>
> Master's Degree in Computer Science
>
> or
>
> Ph. D. in Computer Science.
>
> This is not followed currently.
>
> One can not expect everything from everyone. I am sure that a person who
> holds master's degree in computer science knows:
>
> - how ping works
> - how traceroute works
> - about dhcp
>
> So..........we can talk many things. My request is "Pleas don't try to
> degrade the old/new CCIEs".
>
> thanks,
>
> With regards
> Joh.
>
>
>
> On 11/7/07, Paul Dardinski <pauld@marshallcomm.com> wrote:
> In the end it is inconceivable that a ccie (no matter what era) can't
> tell you how a cam table is populated. Alternatively, with the advent
> of dynamips, etc, I guess the era of actually having to cable up
> equipment is also mostly over. The cert unfortunately is going to be in
> jeopardy over time as any barrier to entry falls away and it becomes
> just another lab exercise vs really becoming a true expert in the
> underlying technologies. I assume that over time Cisco will respond
> with
> an increasing level of equipment and interconnections of technology to
> overcome some of this.
>
> As to CCIE's with <1year experience etc....shame on the company that
> expects a whole lot. Certainly they have to understand the guy wouldn't
> be worth much compared to a more seasoned individual and compensation
> surely would/should reflect that.
>
> PD (#16842)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> Jesse Loggins (CCIE#14661)
> Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 5:08 PM
> To: tom nohwa; Cisco certification
> Subject: Re: CCIE Important Interview Quesition asked by Sunrise, Swiss
>
> As a CCIE who has the responsibility of interviewing other CCIE's here
> is my
> take. One of the things that I have run across allot lately, are CCIE's
> with
> no practical experience. In my opinion this is partly because Lab Prep
> material is so prevalent and easily attainable. I have come across many
> CCIE's that could not tell me how to physically connect to a router to
> configure it. That is they had no idea what the console port is.
> Another
> one
> is not knowing how to upgrade the IOS on a router. Also it is amazing
> how
> many CCIE's don't understand IP, as in how things work. For instance
> one
> of
> my interview questions it to ask a CCIE candidate to explain to me how
> traceroute works. Or another is to explain the significance of MTU in a
> real
> world network. Most of the time I get an incorrect response. Why do I
> ask
> these questions? Because to me it shows how much real world experience
> a
>
> candidate has. In my opinion a CCIE candidate should have at least 2 to
> 5
> years of experience before pursuing a CCIE. They should also work there
> way
> from CCNA to CCNP and then to CCIE, learning the technologies as they
> go
>
> (not just using test prep material). Reading all of the books in the
> suggested CCIE reading list for your specific track is also another
> thing
> that I would suggest. And it never hurts to read through the RFC's (in
> my
> opinion as a CCIE your should do this no questions). I say this all to
> suggest that the interviewer that asked you these questions may have
> had
> the
> same purpose in mind. In my opinion the number of inexperienced CCIE's
> on
> the market right now are really hurting the credibility of our coveted
> certification. That seems to be the reason why many of us are starting
> to
> pursue multiple CCIE's to distinguish ourselves. In the past
> multi-CCIE's
> where rare, but now they seem to have become a necessary thing. I say
> this
> as I prepare to take the Service Provider CCIE lab in a few days.
>
> As a side note I asked the last CCIE that I interviewed (he was a
> recently
> cert'd CCIE) to explain to me how the mac-address-table (CAM table for
> you
> old salty CCIE's :-) ) on a switch is populated. His response (this
> came
>
> after numerous questions he could no answer) was "Dude have you been
> studying lately?", I laughed and told him Thanks for his time.
>
>
> Jesse Loggins
> CCIE #14661 (R&S)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "tom nohwa" < tom.nohwa@gmail.com>
> To: "Cisco certification" <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 4:34 AM
> Subject: CCIE Important Interview Quesition asked by Sunrise, Swiss
>
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > This is to explain you my job search experience happened in Swiss
> after
> > acquiring my CCIE. I am not sure how many of you have come across
> similar
> > situation.
> >
> > I started my CCIE journey in the beginning of last year and passed
> the
> lab
> > a
> > few months ago. Later, I started contacting the ISPs, most of them
> never
> > responded. I got an interview from one ISP which is the second
> largest
> > ISP
> > (Sunrise) in Swiss. During the interview, they did not ask any tech
> > questions, instead they asked whether I would be *able to lift the
> router
> > and fix it in the rack.* I was astonished to hear this question, but
> I
> > said
> > I would do it during the emergency situation. Then, I was asked to
> wait
> > for few weeks. Few weeks later, I got the response that my French
> skill
> > was very poor.
> >
> > I have now the following questions to my fellow experts:
> >
> > 1. I have seen only the English version of Cisco IOS. Do you know
> any
> > French version?
> > 2. Having 10+ years experience in networking and holding a degree in
> > networking from the world famous university, I was never asked to
> answer
> > any
> > tech question. Instead, question like lifting the router and fixing
> it in
> > the rack, always irritate me. Is this type of question asked to
> > irritate/insult the CCIE?
> > 3. Is it normal that companies don't respond to an CCIE's job
> > applications
> > (of course my nationality is mentioned in my CV)?
> >
> > Please let me know your comments as I hear that CCIEs are highly
> respected
> > everywhere.
> >
> > Best,
> > Joe.
> >
> >
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