From: Jesse Loggins \(CCIE#14661\) (jlogginsccie@san.rr.com)
Date: Wed Nov 07 2007 - 17:51:45 ART
Unfortunately I think you misunderstand the point that I am trying to make.
The original question as I understood it was why would an employer ask such
simple questions in an interview. I then went on to explain why in interviews
I don't jump direct to advanced questions. I then further went on to give my
experiences as a CCIE who has interviewed multiple other CCIE's (some good,
some bad). As far as attacking someone's accomplishments that was not my aim.
I took the same CCIE as you, maybe not the same lab questions but in general
the process was the same so I understand how difficult it is. With that said I
can also see where the system could be exploited, and am only admitting that
sometimes it is. My further comments where only to try to convince some to
consider their experience level before committing to attaining CCIE.
As a side note when I ask in an interview "How do you rate yourself on a scale
of 1 to 10 in your knowledge of BGP?", and your response is an 11 then I
expect you to answer some basic and not so basic questions. Not respond to me
after I ask the questions "Dude, have you been studying? I forgot most of this
stuff after I took the lab."
Because to me that says that: You (the individual making the statement) are
overly confident = This could make you more prone to mistakes. I'm not sure
about where you work, but where I am mistakes cause outages and outages cost
customers money and lots of it. The one thing that pursuing my first CCIE
taught me was that I still had a lot to learn in the grand scheme of
Networking and there is no way to possibly know it all. But all of networking
(at least in recent times) is held together by a common thread and that is IP,
thus I would expect a CCIE to know that subject very well.
Obviously all of this is just my opinion. But as long as I am part of the
interview process at the company that I work for, if you are a CCIE and you
walk in the door and you demand a 6 figure salary ......... I'm sure you can
fill in the rest.
----- Original Message -----
From: joh willi
To: Paul Dardinski
Cc: Jesse Loggins (CCIE#14661) ; tom nohwa ; Cisco certification
Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 10:12 AM
Subject: Re: CCIE Important Interview Quesition asked by Sunrise, Swiss
Hi Jesse & Paul,
I don't agree with your views. In this thread, you are trying to degrade
the achievement of new CCIEs. CCIE is a prgramme offered by CISCO to the
networking experts, not networking technicians. Being a CCIE, I know how it
is difficult to pass the lab. Even if you use dynamips, don't know physical
cabling, don't understand the technology, it is impossible to setup the
dynamips configuration. I assume CISCO already knows about that. There are
some people who are envy on the the growth of CCIE numbers, are trying to say
that the value of ccie has come down. CCIE has still value in the market.
That is the reason why many people are trying and getting the numbers. ALL
CCIEs ARE WORTH.
I know that many people including myself who have done research in
networking, have done CCIE. It does not mean that we should know how to
reset/recover the password of a router. Nobody knows everything. If you
expect that the CCIEs should know howto:
- lift the router and fix it in the rack
- reset/upgrade the password
- upgrade the ios
then
- what is the role of CCNA technicians?
- why Cisco maintains support database?
- why doc cd?.
Connecting the router to the console can be done by anyone. The
manual/document will explain you about that. If you have system experience,
you can do it.
Please don't talk like technicians and respect the hard work
If you expect that CCIEs should know packet level interpretation, then Cisco
should introduce the entry qualification. That is,
those who want to appear for CCIE exam, should have:
Master's Degree in Computer Science
or
Ph. D. in Computer Science.
This is not followed currently.
One can not expect everything from everyone. I am sure that a person who
holds master's degree in computer science knows:
- how ping works
- how traceroute works
- about dhcp
So..........we can talk many things. My request is "Pleas don't try to
degrade the old/new CCIEs".
thanks,
With regards
Joh.
On 11/7/07, Paul Dardinski <pauld@marshallcomm.com> wrote:
In the end it is inconceivable that a ccie (no matter what era) can't
tell you how a cam table is populated. Alternatively, with the advent
of dynamips, etc, I guess the era of actually having to cable up
equipment is also mostly over. The cert unfortunately is going to be in
jeopardy over time as any barrier to entry falls away and it becomes
just another lab exercise vs really becoming a true expert in the
underlying technologies. I assume that over time Cisco will respond with
an increasing level of equipment and interconnections of technology to
overcome some of this.
As to CCIE's with <1year experience etc....shame on the company that
expects a whole lot. Certainly they have to understand the guy wouldn't
be worth much compared to a more seasoned individual and compensation
surely would/should reflect that.
PD (#16842)
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
Jesse Loggins (CCIE#14661)
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 5:08 PM
To: tom nohwa; Cisco certification
Subject: Re: CCIE Important Interview Quesition asked by Sunrise, Swiss
As a CCIE who has the responsibility of interviewing other CCIE's here
is my
take. One of the things that I have run across allot lately, are CCIE's
with
no practical experience. In my opinion this is partly because Lab Prep
material is so prevalent and easily attainable. I have come across many
CCIE's that could not tell me how to physically connect to a router to
configure it. That is they had no idea what the console port is. Another
one
is not knowing how to upgrade the IOS on a router. Also it is amazing
how
many CCIE's don't understand IP, as in how things work. For instance one
of
my interview questions it to ask a CCIE candidate to explain to me how
traceroute works. Or another is to explain the significance of MTU in a
real
world network. Most of the time I get an incorrect response. Why do I
ask
these questions? Because to me it shows how much real world experience a
candidate has. In my opinion a CCIE candidate should have at least 2 to
5
years of experience before pursuing a CCIE. They should also work there
way
from CCNA to CCNP and then to CCIE, learning the technologies as they go
(not just using test prep material). Reading all of the books in the
suggested CCIE reading list for your specific track is also another
thing
that I would suggest. And it never hurts to read through the RFC's (in
my
opinion as a CCIE your should do this no questions). I say this all to
suggest that the interviewer that asked you these questions may have had
the
same purpose in mind. In my opinion the number of inexperienced CCIE's
on
the market right now are really hurting the credibility of our coveted
certification. That seems to be the reason why many of us are starting
to
pursue multiple CCIE's to distinguish ourselves. In the past
multi-CCIE's
where rare, but now they seem to have become a necessary thing. I say
this
as I prepare to take the Service Provider CCIE lab in a few days.
As a side note I asked the last CCIE that I interviewed (he was a
recently
cert'd CCIE) to explain to me how the mac-address-table (CAM table for
you
old salty CCIE's :-) ) on a switch is populated. His response (this came
after numerous questions he could no answer) was "Dude have you been
studying lately?", I laughed and told him Thanks for his time.
Jesse Loggins
CCIE #14661 (R&S)
----- Original Message -----
From: "tom nohwa" < tom.nohwa@gmail.com>
To: "Cisco certification" <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 4:34 AM
Subject: CCIE Important Interview Quesition asked by Sunrise, Swiss
> Hi all,
>
> This is to explain you my job search experience happened in Swiss
after
> acquiring my CCIE. I am not sure how many of you have come across
similar
> situation.
>
> I started my CCIE journey in the beginning of last year and passed the
lab
> a
> few months ago. Later, I started contacting the ISPs, most of them
never
> responded. I got an interview from one ISP which is the second
largest
> ISP
> (Sunrise) in Swiss. During the interview, they did not ask any tech
> questions, instead they asked whether I would be *able to lift the
router
> and fix it in the rack.* I was astonished to hear this question, but
I
> said
> I would do it during the emergency situation. Then, I was asked to
wait
> for few weeks. Few weeks later, I got the response that my French
skill
> was very poor.
>
> I have now the following questions to my fellow experts:
>
> 1. I have seen only the English version of Cisco IOS. Do you know
any
> French version?
> 2. Having 10+ years experience in networking and holding a degree in
> networking from the world famous university, I was never asked to
answer
> any
> tech question. Instead, question like lifting the router and fixing
it in
> the rack, always irritate me. Is this type of question asked to
> irritate/insult the CCIE?
> 3. Is it normal that companies don't respond to an CCIE's job
> applications
> (of course my nationality is mentioned in my CV)?
>
> Please let me know your comments as I hear that CCIEs are highly
respected
> everywhere.
>
> Best,
> Joe.
>
>
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