From: John Jones (acer0001@gmail.com)
Date: Mon Oct 15 2007 - 09:58:27 ART
As I have said before...
Darby, if you put as much energy into studying as you do writing these
emails, you'd be done with the CCIE process by now and moved on. I thought
this was a technical board...
John
On 10/15/07, Joseph Brunner <joe@affirmedsystems.com> wrote:
>
> Nobody can do the ccie in 5-6 weeks... stop making this board a troll
> board.
>
> "from the help desk to architect role at a fortune 500 company" ??!??!?!!
>
> Do you think it's that easy... unless you have a video of the CIO blowing
> his Tennis partner, and his wife is wasp Teutonic storm trooper you lack
> the
> leverage needed to make even that happen with your newly minted
> "Pennsylvania Zip code" ccie.
>
> Half of the emails I open now from GS CCIE R&S contain non-technical
> issues...
>
>
> Now, everyone back to stuff we came here for...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> Farhan Anwar
> Sent: Monday, October 15, 2007 8:18 AM
> To: Darby Weaver
> Cc: smorris@ipexpert.com; nrf; Guyler, Rik; Gary Duncanson;
> ccielab@groupstudy.com; Usankin, Andrew; Rahmlow, Howard F.;
> sheherezada@gmail.com; Burkett, Michael; Brad Ellis;
> cheffner@certified-labs.com; Brian Dennis; security@groupstudy.com;
> comserv@groupstudy.com; Eric Dobyns
> Subject: Re: OT Re: CCIE Lab Price Increase
>
> Darby, now you are scaring us all. Why you have to be so true ;)
>
> On 10/14/07, Darby Weaver <darbyweaver@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > Well...
> >
> > With all the available materials nowadays...
> >
> > These guys will spend more money on a latte at their
> > local Starbucks while they study than they do on even
> > buying a workbook to study CCIE Labs topics from...
> >
> > Well, I guess they actually have to buy the laptop for
> > Dynamips...
> >
> > :)
> >
> > But let's face it...
> >
> > If you can spend next to nothing in cash outlay and go
> > from the HelpDesk to the Architect Role... at a
> > Fortune 500 or named company...
> >
> > And do it in 5-6 weeks...
> >
> > Especially since the halo-effect may keep other people
> > from challenging someone at the door...
> >
> > This cert is the greatest enabler ever... no doubt in
> > my mind...
> >
> > Not a bad thing, if a person works hard to earn it,
> > but...
> >
> > After enough bad apples spill from the tree...
> >
> > One bad apple spoils the bunch...
> >
> >
> > Used to be the CCIE was "THE TICKET"... now things are
> > going to be changing...
> >
> > However, this seems to be the of things.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- Scott Morris <smorris@ipexpert.com> wrote:
> >
> > > It scares me when I agree with Darby. ;)
> > >
> > > Scott
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Darby Weaver [mailto:darbyweaver@yahoo.com]
> > > Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2007 4:15 AM
> > > To: nrf; Guyler, Rik; 'Gary Duncanson'
> > > Cc: Scott Morris; ccielab@groupstudy.com; Darby
> > > Weaver; Usankin, Andrew;
> > > Rahmlow, Howard F.; sheherezada@gmail.com; Burkett,
> > > Michael; Brad Ellis;
> > > cheffner@certified-labs.com; Brian Dennis;
> > > security@groupstudy.com;
> > > comserv@groupstudy.com; Eric Dobyns
> > > Subject: OT Re: CCIE Lab Price Increase
> > >
> > >
> > > NRF,
> > >
> > > Hmmm...
> > >
> > > I think everyone should interview their job
> > > candidates. Simple.
> > >
> > > No halo-effect. Go get your CCIE on staff or hire
> > > your Gold Partner's CCIE
> > > and interview properly in the first place. Simple.
> > >
> > > That my friend would put a damper on people just
> > > thinking a CCIE by itself
> > > is a lotto ticket.
> > >
> > > However:
> > >
> > > As long as a Help Desk Person (or any person aka
> > > unemployed) can spend a little time studying
> > > honestly (or worse -
> > > Braindumping the Written and then obtaining NDA
> > > violations - on GS or
> > > elseplace) and then obtaining the current $1715.00
> > > to take both tests...
> > >
> > > And go from $7-14.00 per hour (rates of some help
> > > desk employees, or others)
> > > and go to...
> > >
> > > $50,000.00-80,000.00 CCIE Sweatshop Rate and
> > >
> > > $80,000.00 - $125,00.00 or more...
> > >
> > > with all the perks...
> > >
> > > In 30-90 days and pass on the first try (making
> > > legitimate candidates look
> > > inept)...
> > >
> > > Yep, Houston we have a problem.
> > >
> > >
> > > You see the people who have time to conduct research
> > > and obtain those items
> > > will always have an advantage over the Network
> > > Engineer who is gainfully
> > > employed.
> > >
> > > Now... I wish it were different but it is not.
> > >
> > > I've read a lot of posts where people are passing
> > > the lab really quickly, in
> > > a few months even, and making it look easy.
> > >
> > > Meanwhile, many of us on this list and elsewhere,
> > > have spent years prepping
> > > by buying books, labs, going to classes, trying to
> > > find time just to
> > > practice and still may take multiple attempts to
> > > pass the lab.
> > >
> > > And let's face it, sometimes after we have studied,
> > > despite those poor
> > > practice lab results, we somehow think we might get
> > > lucky and just pass the
> > > lab... this time...
> > >
> > > Kinda like an addicted gambler... playing a slot
> > > machine.
> > >
> > > So the lab attempts add up, why - cause we had a
> > > little disposable cash and
> > > the clock is ticking.
> > >
> > >
> > > But hey, if you are the person who can get the stuff
> > > you need to just bang
> > > out the written and then bang out the lab in just a
> > > few scant weeks and
> > > summarily pass the lab on the first try.
> > >
> > > I guess you ought to be making the top $$$ just for
> > > having the guts to try
> > > to pull it off.
> > >
> > > I also think, that these same tpyes of persona will
> > > be using stuff like
> > > Dynamips soon and as such...
> > >
> > > Could theoretically, pass the written/lab within say
> > > 30-60 days or so and
> > > never have even seen a router on their first try
> > > even.
> > >
> > > Now that's pitiful but with a Dynamips Lab, one can
> > > load gear faster
> > > (virtual) and setup a scenario or series of
> > > scenarios.
> > >
> > > Would not matter if there were 10 labs per year in
> > > the real lab or if there
> > > were 50 labs per track.
> > >
> > > They would just create a config and type them over
> > > again until it was done.
> > >
> > > Brute force but hey...
> > >
> > > $14,000.00 per year versus $150.000.00 per year.
> > >
> > > Who would blame them. Never mind people in a third
> > > word country where the
> > > situation is even more drastic.
> > >
> > > I've heard rumors about Australia granting
> > > citizenship based on the CCIE.
> > >
> > > I've met a man in the U.S. who immigrated from a
> > > Mulsim Country to Germany
> > > and fromt there to Canada and from Canada to the
> > > U.S. -> All based on
> > > advanced certs including the CCIE.
> > >
> > >
> > > So NRF, if people are not going to review a
> > > candidate's resume and be
> > > willing to ask the hard questions, these guys are
> > > going to be working as
> > > CCIE's and maybe not for long, they may get fired
> > > from time to time, but
> > > envetually, they will get better or they will burn
> > > out.
> > >
> > > But they are here now. And good interviewing
> > > techniques will weed them out,
> > > one by one. If they are blacklisted then... it
> > > might help some.
> > >
> > >
> > > I still recall the story of the CCIE who passed in
> > > like 4 months... He went
> > > to a trainig center in India for like 4-6 weeks and
> > > then to the U.S. for
> > > like 3-5 weeks and maybe a few things in between.
> > >
> > > He passed on like his 2nd try in about 4 months or
> > > so.
> > >
> > > Did not waste his seat. I think he is still unable
> > > to get a job... sad...
> > > so much time and money gone trying.
> > >
> > > Wow!!!
> > >
> > > Pretty much true story. There are lots more where
> > > that one came from.
> > >
> > >
> > > So expect that those seats are gonna be filled for a
> > > long time.
> > >
> > >
> > > Now, wanna change that?
> > >
> > > There's a little sneaky way...
> > >
> > > Next time everyone one on this lists gets a salary
> > > survey...
> > >
> > > Fill it out. Yep.
> > >
> > > Yep $10,000.00 per year annual salary.
> > > No benefits
> > > Boss yells at me and makes me clean latrines, since
> > > he thinks that all the
> > > bits and bytes go down the tubes.
> > > Expected to work 10-12 hours a day every day.
> > > No vacation in 10 years.
> > >
> > > Really sucks being a CCIE, but at least I have a job
> > > an the bombs are not so
> > > bad at night.
> > >
> > > It sounds extreme, but if we keep painting a rosy
> > > picture, then...
> > >
> > > The people who want roses for nothing will keep
> > > hammering away at the
> > > petals.
> > >
> > >
> > > Now it may take a couple of years... tell people
> > > the market is saturated.
> > > Too many CCIE's and not enough CCENTs.
> > >
> > > Hah!
> > >
> > > Whatever it takes...
> > >
> > >
> > > Ouch!
> >
> > _______________________________________________________________________
> > Subscription information may be found at:
> > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Farhan Anwar
> www.farhananwar.com
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Subscription information may be found at:
> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Subscription information may be found at:
> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.4 : Fri Nov 16 2007 - 13:11:15 ART