From: Joseph Brunner (joe@affirmedsystems.com)
Date: Mon Oct 15 2007 - 09:28:33 ART
Nobody can do the ccie in 5-6 weeks... stop making this board a troll board.
"from the help desk to architect role at a fortune 500 company" ??!??!?!!
Do you think it's that easy... unless you have a video of the CIO blowing
his Tennis partner, and his wife is wasp Teutonic storm trooper you lack the
leverage needed to make even that happen with your newly minted
"Pennsylvania Zip code" ccie.
Half of the emails I open now from GS CCIE R&S contain non-technical
issues...
Now, everyone back to stuff we came here for...
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
Farhan Anwar
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2007 8:18 AM
To: Darby Weaver
Cc: smorris@ipexpert.com; nrf; Guyler, Rik; Gary Duncanson;
ccielab@groupstudy.com; Usankin, Andrew; Rahmlow, Howard F.;
sheherezada@gmail.com; Burkett, Michael; Brad Ellis;
cheffner@certified-labs.com; Brian Dennis; security@groupstudy.com;
comserv@groupstudy.com; Eric Dobyns
Subject: Re: OT Re: CCIE Lab Price Increase
Darby, now you are scaring us all. Why you have to be so true ;)
On 10/14/07, Darby Weaver <darbyweaver@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Well...
>
> With all the available materials nowadays...
>
> These guys will spend more money on a latte at their
> local Starbucks while they study than they do on even
> buying a workbook to study CCIE Labs topics from...
>
> Well, I guess they actually have to buy the laptop for
> Dynamips...
>
> :)
>
> But let's face it...
>
> If you can spend next to nothing in cash outlay and go
> from the HelpDesk to the Architect Role... at a
> Fortune 500 or named company...
>
> And do it in 5-6 weeks...
>
> Especially since the halo-effect may keep other people
> from challenging someone at the door...
>
> This cert is the greatest enabler ever... no doubt in
> my mind...
>
> Not a bad thing, if a person works hard to earn it,
> but...
>
> After enough bad apples spill from the tree...
>
> One bad apple spoils the bunch...
>
>
> Used to be the CCIE was "THE TICKET"... now things are
> going to be changing...
>
> However, this seems to be the of things.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- Scott Morris <smorris@ipexpert.com> wrote:
>
> > It scares me when I agree with Darby. ;)
> >
> > Scott
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Darby Weaver [mailto:darbyweaver@yahoo.com]
> > Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2007 4:15 AM
> > To: nrf; Guyler, Rik; 'Gary Duncanson'
> > Cc: Scott Morris; ccielab@groupstudy.com; Darby
> > Weaver; Usankin, Andrew;
> > Rahmlow, Howard F.; sheherezada@gmail.com; Burkett,
> > Michael; Brad Ellis;
> > cheffner@certified-labs.com; Brian Dennis;
> > security@groupstudy.com;
> > comserv@groupstudy.com; Eric Dobyns
> > Subject: OT Re: CCIE Lab Price Increase
> >
> >
> > NRF,
> >
> > Hmmm...
> >
> > I think everyone should interview their job
> > candidates. Simple.
> >
> > No halo-effect. Go get your CCIE on staff or hire
> > your Gold Partner's CCIE
> > and interview properly in the first place. Simple.
> >
> > That my friend would put a damper on people just
> > thinking a CCIE by itself
> > is a lotto ticket.
> >
> > However:
> >
> > As long as a Help Desk Person (or any person aka
> > unemployed) can spend a little time studying
> > honestly (or worse -
> > Braindumping the Written and then obtaining NDA
> > violations - on GS or
> > elseplace) and then obtaining the current $1715.00
> > to take both tests...
> >
> > And go from $7-14.00 per hour (rates of some help
> > desk employees, or others)
> > and go to...
> >
> > $50,000.00-80,000.00 CCIE Sweatshop Rate and
> >
> > $80,000.00 - $125,00.00 or more...
> >
> > with all the perks...
> >
> > In 30-90 days and pass on the first try (making
> > legitimate candidates look
> > inept)...
> >
> > Yep, Houston we have a problem.
> >
> >
> > You see the people who have time to conduct research
> > and obtain those items
> > will always have an advantage over the Network
> > Engineer who is gainfully
> > employed.
> >
> > Now... I wish it were different but it is not.
> >
> > I've read a lot of posts where people are passing
> > the lab really quickly, in
> > a few months even, and making it look easy.
> >
> > Meanwhile, many of us on this list and elsewhere,
> > have spent years prepping
> > by buying books, labs, going to classes, trying to
> > find time just to
> > practice and still may take multiple attempts to
> > pass the lab.
> >
> > And let's face it, sometimes after we have studied,
> > despite those poor
> > practice lab results, we somehow think we might get
> > lucky and just pass the
> > lab... this time...
> >
> > Kinda like an addicted gambler... playing a slot
> > machine.
> >
> > So the lab attempts add up, why - cause we had a
> > little disposable cash and
> > the clock is ticking.
> >
> >
> > But hey, if you are the person who can get the stuff
> > you need to just bang
> > out the written and then bang out the lab in just a
> > few scant weeks and
> > summarily pass the lab on the first try.
> >
> > I guess you ought to be making the top $$$ just for
> > having the guts to try
> > to pull it off.
> >
> > I also think, that these same tpyes of persona will
> > be using stuff like
> > Dynamips soon and as such...
> >
> > Could theoretically, pass the written/lab within say
> > 30-60 days or so and
> > never have even seen a router on their first try
> > even.
> >
> > Now that's pitiful but with a Dynamips Lab, one can
> > load gear faster
> > (virtual) and setup a scenario or series of
> > scenarios.
> >
> > Would not matter if there were 10 labs per year in
> > the real lab or if there
> > were 50 labs per track.
> >
> > They would just create a config and type them over
> > again until it was done.
> >
> > Brute force but hey...
> >
> > $14,000.00 per year versus $150.000.00 per year.
> >
> > Who would blame them. Never mind people in a third
> > word country where the
> > situation is even more drastic.
> >
> > I've heard rumors about Australia granting
> > citizenship based on the CCIE.
> >
> > I've met a man in the U.S. who immigrated from a
> > Mulsim Country to Germany
> > and fromt there to Canada and from Canada to the
> > U.S. -> All based on
> > advanced certs including the CCIE.
> >
> >
> > So NRF, if people are not going to review a
> > candidate's resume and be
> > willing to ask the hard questions, these guys are
> > going to be working as
> > CCIE's and maybe not for long, they may get fired
> > from time to time, but
> > envetually, they will get better or they will burn
> > out.
> >
> > But they are here now. And good interviewing
> > techniques will weed them out,
> > one by one. If they are blacklisted then... it
> > might help some.
> >
> >
> > I still recall the story of the CCIE who passed in
> > like 4 months... He went
> > to a trainig center in India for like 4-6 weeks and
> > then to the U.S. for
> > like 3-5 weeks and maybe a few things in between.
> >
> > He passed on like his 2nd try in about 4 months or
> > so.
> >
> > Did not waste his seat. I think he is still unable
> > to get a job... sad...
> > so much time and money gone trying.
> >
> > Wow!!!
> >
> > Pretty much true story. There are lots more where
> > that one came from.
> >
> >
> > So expect that those seats are gonna be filled for a
> > long time.
> >
> >
> > Now, wanna change that?
> >
> > There's a little sneaky way...
> >
> > Next time everyone one on this lists gets a salary
> > survey...
> >
> > Fill it out. Yep.
> >
> > Yep $10,000.00 per year annual salary.
> > No benefits
> > Boss yells at me and makes me clean latrines, since
> > he thinks that all the
> > bits and bytes go down the tubes.
> > Expected to work 10-12 hours a day every day.
> > No vacation in 10 years.
> >
> > Really sucks being a CCIE, but at least I have a job
> > an the bombs are not so
> > bad at night.
> >
> > It sounds extreme, but if we keep painting a rosy
> > picture, then...
> >
> > The people who want roses for nothing will keep
> > hammering away at the
> > petals.
> >
> >
> > Now it may take a couple of years... tell people
> > the market is saturated.
> > Too many CCIE's and not enough CCENTs.
> >
> > Hah!
> >
> > Whatever it takes...
> >
> >
> > Ouch!
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Subscription information may be found at:
> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>
-- Farhan Anwar www.farhananwar.com
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