From: Farhan Anwar (farhan.anwar@gmail.com)
Date: Mon Oct 15 2007 - 09:18:26 ART
Darby, now you are scaring us all. Why you have to be so true ;)
On 10/14/07, Darby Weaver <darbyweaver@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Well...
>
> With all the available materials nowadays...
>
> These guys will spend more money on a latte at their
> local Starbucks while they study than they do on even
> buying a workbook to study CCIE Labs topics from...
>
> Well, I guess they actually have to buy the laptop for
> Dynamips...
>
> :)
>
> But let's face it...
>
> If you can spend next to nothing in cash outlay and go
> from the HelpDesk to the Architect Role... at a
> Fortune 500 or named company...
>
> And do it in 5-6 weeks...
>
> Especially since the halo-effect may keep other people
> from challenging someone at the door...
>
> This cert is the greatest enabler ever... no doubt in
> my mind...
>
> Not a bad thing, if a person works hard to earn it,
> but...
>
> After enough bad apples spill from the tree...
>
> One bad apple spoils the bunch...
>
>
> Used to be the CCIE was "THE TICKET"... now things are
> going to be changing...
>
> However, this seems to be the of things.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- Scott Morris <smorris@ipexpert.com> wrote:
>
> > It scares me when I agree with Darby. ;)
> >
> > Scott
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Darby Weaver [mailto:darbyweaver@yahoo.com]
> > Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2007 4:15 AM
> > To: nrf; Guyler, Rik; 'Gary Duncanson'
> > Cc: Scott Morris; ccielab@groupstudy.com; Darby
> > Weaver; Usankin, Andrew;
> > Rahmlow, Howard F.; sheherezada@gmail.com; Burkett,
> > Michael; Brad Ellis;
> > cheffner@certified-labs.com; Brian Dennis;
> > security@groupstudy.com;
> > comserv@groupstudy.com; Eric Dobyns
> > Subject: OT Re: CCIE Lab Price Increase
> >
> >
> > NRF,
> >
> > Hmmm...
> >
> > I think everyone should interview their job
> > candidates. Simple.
> >
> > No halo-effect. Go get your CCIE on staff or hire
> > your Gold Partner's CCIE
> > and interview properly in the first place. Simple.
> >
> > That my friend would put a damper on people just
> > thinking a CCIE by itself
> > is a lotto ticket.
> >
> > However:
> >
> > As long as a Help Desk Person (or any person aka
> > unemployed) can spend a little time studying
> > honestly (or worse -
> > Braindumping the Written and then obtaining NDA
> > violations - on GS or
> > elseplace) and then obtaining the current $1715.00
> > to take both tests...
> >
> > And go from $7-14.00 per hour (rates of some help
> > desk employees, or others)
> > and go to...
> >
> > $50,000.00-80,000.00 CCIE Sweatshop Rate and
> >
> > $80,000.00 - $125,00.00 or more...
> >
> > with all the perks...
> >
> > In 30-90 days and pass on the first try (making
> > legitimate candidates look
> > inept)...
> >
> > Yep, Houston we have a problem.
> >
> >
> > You see the people who have time to conduct research
> > and obtain those items
> > will always have an advantage over the Network
> > Engineer who is gainfully
> > employed.
> >
> > Now... I wish it were different but it is not.
> >
> > I've read a lot of posts where people are passing
> > the lab really quickly, in
> > a few months even, and making it look easy.
> >
> > Meanwhile, many of us on this list and elsewhere,
> > have spent years prepping
> > by buying books, labs, going to classes, trying to
> > find time just to
> > practice and still may take multiple attempts to
> > pass the lab.
> >
> > And let's face it, sometimes after we have studied,
> > despite those poor
> > practice lab results, we somehow think we might get
> > lucky and just pass the
> > lab... this time...
> >
> > Kinda like an addicted gambler... playing a slot
> > machine.
> >
> > So the lab attempts add up, why - cause we had a
> > little disposable cash and
> > the clock is ticking.
> >
> >
> > But hey, if you are the person who can get the stuff
> > you need to just bang
> > out the written and then bang out the lab in just a
> > few scant weeks and
> > summarily pass the lab on the first try.
> >
> > I guess you ought to be making the top $$$ just for
> > having the guts to try
> > to pull it off.
> >
> > I also think, that these same tpyes of persona will
> > be using stuff like
> > Dynamips soon and as such...
> >
> > Could theoretically, pass the written/lab within say
> > 30-60 days or so and
> > never have even seen a router on their first try
> > even.
> >
> > Now that's pitiful but with a Dynamips Lab, one can
> > load gear faster
> > (virtual) and setup a scenario or series of
> > scenarios.
> >
> > Would not matter if there were 10 labs per year in
> > the real lab or if there
> > were 50 labs per track.
> >
> > They would just create a config and type them over
> > again until it was done.
> >
> > Brute force but hey...
> >
> > $14,000.00 per year versus $150.000.00 per year.
> >
> > Who would blame them. Never mind people in a third
> > word country where the
> > situation is even more drastic.
> >
> > I've heard rumors about Australia granting
> > citizenship based on the CCIE.
> >
> > I've met a man in the U.S. who immigrated from a
> > Mulsim Country to Germany
> > and fromt there to Canada and from Canada to the
> > U.S. -> All based on
> > advanced certs including the CCIE.
> >
> >
> > So NRF, if people are not going to review a
> > candidate's resume and be
> > willing to ask the hard questions, these guys are
> > going to be working as
> > CCIE's and maybe not for long, they may get fired
> > from time to time, but
> > envetually, they will get better or they will burn
> > out.
> >
> > But they are here now. And good interviewing
> > techniques will weed them out,
> > one by one. If they are blacklisted then... it
> > might help some.
> >
> >
> > I still recall the story of the CCIE who passed in
> > like 4 months... He went
> > to a trainig center in India for like 4-6 weeks and
> > then to the U.S. for
> > like 3-5 weeks and maybe a few things in between.
> >
> > He passed on like his 2nd try in about 4 months or
> > so.
> >
> > Did not waste his seat. I think he is still unable
> > to get a job... sad...
> > so much time and money gone trying.
> >
> > Wow!!!
> >
> > Pretty much true story. There are lots more where
> > that one came from.
> >
> >
> > So expect that those seats are gonna be filled for a
> > long time.
> >
> >
> > Now, wanna change that?
> >
> > There's a little sneaky way...
> >
> > Next time everyone one on this lists gets a salary
> > survey...
> >
> > Fill it out. Yep.
> >
> > Yep $10,000.00 per year annual salary.
> > No benefits
> > Boss yells at me and makes me clean latrines, since
> > he thinks that all the
> > bits and bytes go down the tubes.
> > Expected to work 10-12 hours a day every day.
> > No vacation in 10 years.
> >
> > Really sucks being a CCIE, but at least I have a job
> > an the bombs are not so
> > bad at night.
> >
> > It sounds extreme, but if we keep painting a rosy
> > picture, then...
> >
> > The people who want roses for nothing will keep
> > hammering away at the
> > petals.
> >
> >
> > Now it may take a couple of years... tell people
> > the market is saturated.
> > Too many CCIE's and not enough CCENTs.
> >
> > Hah!
> >
> > Whatever it takes...
> >
> >
> > Ouch!
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
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-- Farhan Anwar www.farhananwar.com
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