From: Gary Duncanson (gary.duncanson@googlemail.com)
Date: Sun Oct 14 2007 - 17:32:56 ART
Well if this is capitalism perhaps we are just stuck with it? The number of
certifications is not proportional to the paycheck, at least not here in the
UK. I have to say that in my experience we are not certification happy here
like I have seen in other places like the States. Personally while doing
another CCIE after R&S would be interesting I don't think it's necessary to
go for a second or third CCIE to 'keep in the hunt'.
Quite frankly given my commitments at work and at home I really don't have
the time and neither do many other people. There are way more opportunities
on the professional front by investing that kind of time and energy into
contracting and being technical design authority for projects than battering
away at yet another CCIE.
Have CCIE numbers gone through the roof the last two or three years? I don't
know. If so are the real labs sites the cause of this? Again, not sure.
The real lab thing sucks but given the extent of braindumping for the
written and the forums with Joes who gleefully say 'I got 1000 and I used
this dump' it's hardly surprising we now have a real lab racket. Are cisco
in a win-win? Perhaps they are, but I'm not grumbling as they have kept me
in gainful employment for many years.
There is one saving grace. The field. The CCIE program has been around a
while now and more than a few grizzled practioners are usually not too far
away from a project any newly minted newly employed CCIE may get dragged
into. I'm still working towards my CCIE and personally I like working with
such people. It's fun and there are a few things you can learn. For others
it's an exercise in terror. These people know what to look for in a network
specialist so you really have to be as good as the CCIE says you are
supposed to be, and if you are there are still plenty of opportunities out
there to prosper. Lots. There's more to all that than accumulating multiple
CCIE's anyway. Experience for one thing, and exposure to things other than
Cisco are another. An enquiring mind helps too but I'm afraid no
certification will give you that.
So basically if you dump the CCIE lab you cut your own throat really, not
mine :)
----- Original Message -----
From: "M e" <iosluver@gmail.com>
To: "Farhan Anwar" <farhan.anwar@gmail.com>
Cc: "sirus MOGHADASIAN" <cyrus.mgh@gmail.com>; "Cisco certification"
<ccielab@groupstudy.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2007 7:32 PM
Subject: Re: Will CCIE lab walk on the same road as ccna,ccnp,ccsp,mcse,...
walked long time ago?
> Hi Gents,
>
> The point here is what exactly has Cisco done to rid the CCIE program of
> this practices? I began to question Cisco's judgement especially when I
> consider the fact that, labs that people buy oline to pass the labs have
> been available in the public domain for almost 2 years now.
>
> Do you really think Cisco will spend resources to go after these people..I
> think not & will love to see any evidence to the contrary. This is a big
> ass
> rat race that Cisco being a corporation will win & come out on top even
> though they aren't racing with the rest of us. Cisco is in a win-win
> situation because, they add more individuals to their growing pool of
> CCIEs
> every month, they however, do not make any effort to protect the integrity
> of program, Furthermore, why should they, when there is now a need for the
> really good engineers to place themselves above the cheats in the pecking
> order by earning a second or even third CCIE. This is not a bad aspect of
> the cause & effect here, it is rather good in my humble opinion. This does
> not however prevent Cisco from meeting ethical commitments if only to
> protect the program.
>
> So tell me who is winning, the candidate who invests between 12 to 18
> months
> to prepare for 1 lab & possibly retake the lab if a failure occurs, or
> Cisco
> which just waits for the credit card charges to roll through stamp on the
> numbers without bothering to maintain the integrity of the Cetification.
> On
> the long run, we will be the ones on whom the burden of placing
> this aspect of the industry in the position of great respect &
> privilege which it deserves.
>
> After the incident in which the dude with the ACL on a sheet of paper got
> himself into a sicky situation was discussed in the forum last week, it
> became very obvious to me that Cisco's liability as far as the
> certification
> program is concerned does not extend itself into pursueing the vioaltors
> of
> the NDA, exam regualtions. If they catch you fine..if they don't move on &
> join the others out there.
>
> Makes you wonder how long this crap has been going on. I remember back in
> the days of MCSE NT 4.0 (I'm not placing MCSE on the same level as the
> CCIE,
> this is stictly an analogy), if you lived in Asia, you could get an MCSE
> in
> a week or 2 with no fuss what so ever. This eventually moved to become a
> global get-&-pass MCSE for all. You would think that Microsoft would find
> a
> way to stamp this out, no, what did they do, they rewarded the very same
> region with the biggest overseas software development for Microsoft out
> side
> the US. Last I checked, Cisco has begun to go down this path as well. Has
> it
> occured to you that with the large pool of CCIEs in the market, a time
> will
> come when the slaries will begin to drop, making the potential CCIE
> candidate aim for 2 or more CCIEs to make the kind of money one would
> consider a good paycheck.
>
> I hate to admit but this after all is why it is called CAPITALISM,.....
> the
> player with the big chips wins ....
>
>
>
>
> On 10/14/07, Farhan Anwar <farhan.anwar@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Cyrus,
>> Remember, doing a CCIE is just the beginning, sustaining it is also hard
>> enough. After attaining the popular number, ppl expect you to be an
>> Expert
>> as the label says, but if you are not what they think of, your survival
>> is
>> tough in the competent market. Sure one can make $1000/month using
>> Rentacert
>> ;) but whats the point in attaining it if all you wanted is the $1000
>> rent.
>>
>> Let Cisco take care of its CCIE Program's integrity, uniqueness and
>> intensity.
>> Let us concentrate on the matters which help us in attaining our number
>> honestly.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Farhan.
>>
>> On 10/14/07, sirus MOGHADASIAN <cyrus.mgh@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi GS,
>> >
>> > I find at least two site that sell real ccie lab scenarios that have
>> > product
>> > like this (6 Real Labs(2006) + 4 NEW Real Labs(2007)!!!!!!!!!!)
>> >
>> > if this is true:
>> >
>> >
>> > I think CCIE Lab is now is as trivial as CCNA,CCNP,MCSE, and what ever
>> > exam
>> > that u can find thier dumps out there.
>> >
>> > somebody with no knowledge can now be certified as CCIE.
>> >
>> > IMHO,what keep glory of CCIE is now gone ,now people can dump this exam
>> as
>> > others.
>> >
>> > I don't wanna disappoint u but I completely lost and pretty hopeless at
>> > this
>> > moment and feel what we spent our time on it is now not as valuable as
>> > before.
>> >
>> >
>> > Cyrus
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________________________________
>> > Subscription information may be found at:
>> > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Farhan Anwar
>> www.farhananwar.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________________________________
>> Subscription information may be found at:
>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Subscription information may be found at:
> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
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