From: Darby Weaver (darbyweaver@yahoo.com)
Date: Sun Oct 14 2007 - 04:41:42 ART
NRF,
Let's be fair - whether a guy who really wants thinks
he wants to be a CCIE pretty badly takes 20 shots at
the lab or more than 3...
He's paying for the seat. Right?
I mean he's working for the money or it is a benefit
from working somewhere or whatever, he's paying the
$1400.00 for the seat and a chance to spend 8 hours
doing a taste test on whatever the meal of the day is.
So if he's paying his money just the guy who may (or
may not pass) on the first try.
Is there really a point?
Go back and read the archives - there was once
someone who reportedly went a lot of times, the number
27 sticks in my head.
Now this guy went through it all to get his CCIE.
He wanted it.
Plain and simple and I promise you it meant more to
him than the guy who passed on the first try.
Besides, the guys who sponsir this forum make a living
out of us folks who think they want to be a CCIE but
do not pass on the first try.
Cisco even boasts that we, as a statistic, will spend
not one but several attempts to earn this covted
certification.
So it is not reall meant to be passed on the first
try. But some do.
I can promise you of those who have passed on the
first try that I personally know or have met - only a
couple are really sharp cookies... And I'm sure there
are others like Brian Dennis, Petr, and so on... who
can break down a topic on the fly, etc.
I met Brad at my class from NMC and the guy pure
melted the gear, he finished so fast on any given
scenario... but he also confided he had worked his
way through a few workbooks over a few years... He
earned it and it showed. He did not type unnaturally
fast, he just knew the CLI, and he knew the DOC CD,
and he knew how to debug and read the output if things
did not work as he expected. He naturally passed on
the first try. I actually expected he might have just
paid to take the SP and Security on the same day and
maybe the Voice just cause he could before his
plance... This dude rocked.
But I know that some people want to pass really badly
the first try and just like any college... exam...
may simply stop at nothing to do so.
Others actually earn it, but you can beleive they work
for it and work hard. Lots of labs and reading.
I actually believe there is a formula of some sort for
this stuff based on one's intellect, interest, desire,
drive, etc. and access ot gear with time to practice
and read.
So... Give those guys going 10 times a break - they
are paying customers...
In fact there is a simple solution to it all:
Make a person pay for the Lab, the day they confirm a
seat.
No pay, no seat.
Simple.
Lots of seats would free up.
Now this might not stop the Cisco employees, but maybe
if they had a system to do the same or something
similar.
No one signs up who does not pay the day they sign up.
Simple.
Problem solved.
You sign up 6 months out, you pay 6 months out.
You sign up 2 days before, you pay 2 days before the
lab...
Simple.
Can't pay, then don't book a seat.
Simple.
This would work to some extent.
--- nrf <noglikirf@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Scott Morris" <smorris@ipexpert.com>
> To: "'nrf'" <noglikirf@hotmail.com>; "'Darby
> Weaver'"
> <darbyweaver@yahoo.com>; "'Usankin, Andrew'"
> <Andrew.Usankin@twtelecom.com>;
> "'Rahmlow, Howard F.'"
> <Howard.F.Rahmlow@unisys.com>;
> <sheherezada@gmail.com>
> Cc: "'Burkett, Michael'"
> <Michael.Burkett@c-a-m.com>; "'Brad Ellis'"
> <brad@ccbootcamp.com>; "'Christopher M. Heffner'"
> <cheffner@certified-labs.com>; "'Eric Dobyns'"
> <eric_dobyns@yahoo.com>;
> "'Brian Dennis'" <bdennis@internetworkexpert.com>;
> <ccielab@groupstudy.com>;
> <security@groupstudy.com>; <comserv@groupstudy.com>
> Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 9:10 AM
> Subject: RE: CCIE Lab Price Increase
>
>
> > Since we're talking about colleges and their
> policies... Not all of them
> > make sense (although it's a policy nonetheless).
> >
> > Way back when... When I applied to college,
> Indiana Univeristy was one of
> > my choices (no, I can't remember why, but it was)
> and I was rejected by
> > them
> > simply because I was not in the top 25% of my
> class.
> >
> > The details didn't matter that I had almost a 4.0,
> or that my graduating
> > class of 144 people was the most academically
> accomplished that school had
> > ever seen, or all the AP classes/exams or anything
> else. It was simply a
> > checkbox they had from the plethora of
> applications they had coming in.
> >
> > In the long run, I think it was much better, as I
> ended up at a much
> > better
> > college (who was bright enough to look at more
> items than simply a
> > checkbox
> > like that).
> >
> > Colleges have guidelines much like companies do.
> No doubt about that.
> > The
> > number of college applications received versus
> open spots is very much
> > akin
> > to how many resumes/applications a company gets
> for any open position.
> > But
> > if someone simply has a checkbox to fill (did this
> person take the CCIE
> > lab
> > more than 'x' number of times) they are really not
> looking at the whole
> > picture.
> >
> > I certainly don't have any hard feelings against
> IU. I just think it was
> > a
> > stupid reason for making a decision like that.
> >
> > Getting a job is often like a sales technique on
> the side of those people
> > who really want a particular job. How you write
> your resume, how you
> > present yourself, all of those things. If you
> want to boil this all down
> > to
> > a checkbox format, what is it going to help? Just
> delaying being at the
> > same place.
> >
> > Anyway... IHMO, this conversation isn't really
> going anyplace. I think
> > enough people have been inconvenienced. You have
> your opinion, I have
> > mine,
> > and I believe we have both stated our points about
> why the other isn't
> > seeing things right. :)
>
> You talk about checkboxes. Let me put it to you
> this way. Consider a guy
> who is a brilliant network tech and probably will
> pass his CCIE on his first
> shot. But he can't even get a lab seat. He has a
> job that prevents him
> from taking the lab on just any old day. He also
> has responsibilities to
> his family that also tie him down for significant
> days in the month. So,
> realistically, he can only take the lab on certain
> days out of the year.
> But his ability to get seats on those days is
> hindered because other people
> (i.e. those 20-timers) are taking those seats.
> Hence, his chances to
> become an official CCIE is unnecessarily delayed.
> Hence, this guy's ability
> to fulfill a company checkbox (for a CCIE) is being
> delayed. Is that fair?
>
> The bottom line is this. If you've taken the exam
> 20 times, I think it's
> fair for you to let other people ahead who haven't
> even had ONE attempt.
> Just like if you've already snarfed 20 sodas, don't
> we agree that it's fair
> for you to let ahead those guys who haven't even had
> ONE soda?
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