From: Scott Morris (smorris@ipexpert.com)
Date: Thu Oct 11 2007 - 23:43:20 ART
Some people simply don't test well.
Other people are simply persistent.
If it takes them 20 times to pass, I cannot imagine any reality in which
they would not be (or grown to be) an excellent engineer.
Not everyone has the benefits that others may have going into the path of
CCIE.
Granted, some people may be persistent beyond their skill level and simply
beat the law of averages, but I think we're all missing some significant
statistical data to be able to say something like that outright!
Scott
-----Original Message-----
From: nrf [mailto:noglikirf@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 8:34 PM
To: Usankin, Andrew; Rahmlow, Howard F.; sheherezada@gmail.com; Scott Morris
Cc: Burkett, Michael; Brad Ellis; Christopher M. Heffner; Eric Dobyns; Brian
Dennis; ccielab@groupstudy.com; security@groupstudy.com;
comserv@groupstudy.com
Subject: Re: CCIE Lab Price Increase
----- Original Message -----
From: "Usankin, Andrew" <Andrew.Usankin@twtelecom.com>
To: "nrf" <noglikirf@hotmail.com>; "Rahmlow, Howard F."
<Howard.F.Rahmlow@unisys.com>; <sheherezada@gmail.com>; "Scott Morris"
<smorris@ipexpert.com>
Cc: "Burkett, Michael" <Michael.Burkett@c-a-m.com>; "Brad Ellis"
<brad@ccbootcamp.com>; "Christopher M. Heffner"
<cheffner@certified-labs.com>; "Eric Dobyns" <eric_dobyns@yahoo.com>; "Brian
Dennis" <bdennis@internetworkexpert.com>; <ccielab@groupstudy.com>;
<security@groupstudy.com>; <comserv@groupstudy.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 7:52 PM
Subject: RE: CCIE Lab Price Increase
>I read somewhere, sorry if I mess it up, but I liked the following
>phrase:
>"when a class of medical students graduate even a last one is called a
>doctor"
And of course the rejoinder to that (with apologies to those who have heard
me say it before) is that if you graduate last in your med school class, you
probably won't pass your required USMLE's to get your medical license and
hence you won't be allowed to legally practice medicine, which is the whole
point in becoming a doctor in the first place. In contrast, anybody can
legally 'practice' IT (and I think I have met some network guys who need to
'practice' their skills a whole lot more before they should ever be allowed
anywhere near a router).
>So would you have to choose between two CCIE's then yes, that would be
>cool to know how many attempts it took from each one to pass the lab.
>But that is not the case in reality. Nobody usually gets to choose
>between two CCIE :) unless you have a very attractive offer to show!
I don't know about that. I have known of companies that have had numerous
CCIE's applying, and the offers they were providing were really not that
good.
>Besides, it doesn't matter to me if it will take 15 attempts from Jeff
>Brunner before he gets his number. At the end of the day all that
>matters is your CCIE number and amount of experience you have. And
>don't be surprised if at some places nobody would care if you have CCIE
>or not and all they look for is your experience.
Well, let me put it to you this way. What if you looked up guy who had his
CCIE and found out that he failed 20 times before he finally passed? I
don't know about you, but I would certainly begin to question this guy's
professionalism. If nothing else, that signal would tell me that this is a
guy who evidently doesn't believe in proper preparation. Would you really
want a guy like that on your team? I would have my qualms. After all, he
might show up to work on a project without being properly prepared.
Look, failing a few times is probably no big deal. But after a certain
number of failures, I think we can agree that things are just getting out of
hand. We can debate what that exact number would be, but I think we can all
agree that 20 (or even 10) is probably too much.
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