From: CCIEin2006 (ciscocciein2006@gmail.com)
Date: Thu Oct 11 2007 - 23:15:45 ART
I agree - would you want a doctor operating on you who failed his medical
exam 10 times?
On 10/11/07, nrf <noglikirf@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Darby Weaver" <darbyweaver@yahoo.com>
> To: "Usankin, Andrew" <Andrew.Usankin@twtelecom.com>; "nrf"
> <noglikirf@hotmail.com>; "Rahmlow, Howard F." <Howard.F.Rahmlow@unisys.com
> >;
> <sheherezada@gmail.com>; "Scott Morris" <smorris@ipexpert.com>
> Cc: "Burkett, Michael" <Michael.Burkett@c-a-m.com>; "Brad Ellis"
> <brad@ccbootcamp.com>; "Christopher M. Heffner"
> <cheffner@certified-labs.com>; "Eric Dobyns" <eric_dobyns@yahoo.com>;
> "Brian
> Dennis" <bdennis@internetworkexpert.com>; <ccielab@groupstudy.com>;
> <security@groupstudy.com>; <comserv@groupstudy.com>
> Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 9:19 PM
> Subject: RE: CCIE Lab Price Increase
>
>
> > Any person who went 20 times or more - is probably not
> > cheating - or if they are cheating they are not very
> > good at it.
> >
> > Amd that same person is probably going to know the IOS
> > and the DOC CD at least as well as someone who passed
> > on the first try.
>
> Or they finally stumbled upon a version of the test that actually favored
> them. That could have happened because they received a test version that
> they had seen before. Or it could have been a version that just happened
> to
> ask questions about topics that he knew very well.
>
>
> >
> > Just a thought.
> >
> > The question is how many times did the guy who passed
> > on the first try spend doing practice labs versus the
> > guy on his 20th hit?
> >
> > Chances are a similar amount of effort was eventually
> > spent in pursuit of the goal. I mean if one were
> > honest and if one counted the actual hours spent. Of
> > course, there is some differential for existing
> > experience with the product and intellectual facility.
>
> But again, not to sound like a broken record, the real problem is that the
> guy who took the failed the exam 20 times effectively denied 20 other
> people
> the chance to take the exam. If you're going to have to spend the same
> amount of time/effort to pass the exam anyway, whether you need 1 attempt
> or
> 20, then I think it's fair that you should strive to spend that
> time/effort
> to try to pass the attempt on your first shot in order to free up test
> seats
> for others to take their shot. You can't just keep hogging scarce seats.
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- "Usankin, Andrew" <Andrew.Usankin@twtelecom.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Well, couldn't agree more. 20 attempts is probably
> >> out of range :) But
> >> as you said before here comes the question - how
> >> many is OK?
> >> Actually I don't mind at all if my scores and
> >> attempts are available to
> >> general public, and from the other hand I'd
> >> understand other people who
> >> doesn't want publicity. In my opinion, lack of
> >> information leads to
> >> speculation. But that is a different discussion.
> >>
> >> Andrew
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: nrf [mailto:noglikirf@hotmail.com]
> >> Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 6:34 PM
> >> To: Usankin, Andrew; Rahmlow, Howard F.;
> >> sheherezada@gmail.com; Scott
> >> Morris
> >> Cc: Burkett, Michael; Brad Ellis; Christopher M.
> >> Heffner; Eric Dobyns;
> >> Brian Dennis; ccielab@groupstudy.com;
> >> security@groupstudy.com;
> >> comserv@groupstudy.com
> >> Subject: Re: CCIE Lab Price Increase
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Usankin, Andrew"
> >> <Andrew.Usankin@twtelecom.com>
> >> To: "nrf" <noglikirf@hotmail.com>; "Rahmlow, Howard
> >> F."
> >> <Howard.F.Rahmlow@unisys.com>;
> >> <sheherezada@gmail.com>; "Scott Morris"
> >> <smorris@ipexpert.com>
> >> Cc: "Burkett, Michael" <Michael.Burkett@c-a-m.com>;
> >> "Brad Ellis"
> >> <brad@ccbootcamp.com>; "Christopher M. Heffner"
> >> <cheffner@certified-labs.com>; "Eric Dobyns"
> >> <eric_dobyns@yahoo.com>;
> >> "Brian Dennis" <bdennis@internetworkexpert.com>;
> >> <ccielab@groupstudy.com>; <security@groupstudy.com>;
> >> <comserv@groupstudy.com>
> >> Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 7:52 PM
> >> Subject: RE: CCIE Lab Price Increase
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> >I read somewhere, sorry if I mess it up, but I
> >> liked the following
> >> >phrase:
> >> >"when a class of medical students graduate even a
> >> last one is called a
> >> >doctor"
> >>
> >> And of course the rejoinder to that (with apologies
> >> to those who have
> >> heard me say it before) is that if you graduate last
> >> in your med school
> >> class, you probably won't pass your required USMLE's
> >> to get your medical
> >> license and hence you won't be allowed to legally
> >> practice medicine,
> >> which is the whole point in becoming a doctor in the
> >> first place. In
> >> contrast, anybody can legally 'practice' IT (and I
> >> think I have met some
> >> network guys who need to 'practice' their skills a
> >> whole lot more before
> >> they should ever be allowed anywhere near a router).
> >>
> >> >So would you have to choose between two CCIE's then
> >> yes, that would be
> >> >cool to know how many attempts it took from each
> >> one to pass the lab.
> >> >But that is not the case in reality. Nobody usually
> >> gets to choose
> >> >between two CCIE :) unless you have a very
> >> attractive offer to show!
> >>
> >> I don't know about that. I have known of companies
> >> that have had
> >> numerous CCIE's applying, and the offers they were
> >> providing were really
> >> not that good.
> >>
> >> >Besides, it doesn't matter to me if it will take 15
> >> attempts from Jeff
> >> >Brunner before he gets his number. At the end of
> >> the day all that
> >> >matters is your CCIE number and amount of
> >> experience you have. And
> >> >don't be surprised if at some places nobody would
> >> care if you have CCIE
> >>
> >> >or not and all they look for is your experience.
> >>
> >> Well, let me put it to you this way. What if you
> >> looked up guy who had
> >> his CCIE and found out that he failed 20 times
> >> before he finally passed?
> >> I don't know about you, but I would certainly begin
> >> to question this
> >> guy's
> >> professionalism. If nothing else, that signal
> >> would tell me that this
> >> is a
> >> guy who evidently doesn't believe in proper
> >> preparation. Would you
> >> really want a guy like that on your team? I would
> >> have my qualms.
> >> After all, he might show up to work on a project
> >> without being properly
> >> prepared.
> >>
> >> Look, failing a few times is probably no big deal.
> >> But after a certain
> >> number of failures, I think we can agree that things
> >> are just getting
> >> out of hand. We can debate what that exact number
> >> would be, but I think
> >> we can all agree that 20 (or even 10) is probably
> >> too much.
> >>
> >>
> >>
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