From: Gregory Gombas (ggombas@gmail.com)
Date: Wed Oct 10 2007 - 19:15:14 ART
Ha! Sounds like CCIE dampening to me!
On 10/9/07, Narbik Kocharians <narbikk@gmail.com> wrote:
> May be an incremental wait period would be good where if you fail for the
> first time you can retake the test after 30 days and if you fail again its
> be 2 months and so forth. I also like to see them synchronize the protocols
> in the written and the lab exam, because the idea is that you get tested on
> the theory and then the practical aspect of the theory, whereas, now these
> are two different things all together and some of the protocols covered by
> the written is not covered by the lab.
>
> But to get ride off TestKing and firms alike, they should do a verbal test
> covering the theory, maybe a 2 hour deal, where a proctor comes over and
> tests 10 students in two or three days. This will make both tests a little
> more honest.
>
>
> On 10/9/07, Colin McNamara <colin@2cups.com> wrote:
> >
> > I am all for scheduling something akin to the assessor lab to test
> > performance prior to scheduling a date. Brute force should only be used
> > to test passwords, not get your CCIE #.
> >
> > --
> > Colin McNamara
> > (858)208-8105
> > CCIE #18233
> > "The difficult we do immediately, the impossible just takes a little
> > longer"
> >
> > On Tue, 2007-10-09 at 17:31 -0400, Scott Morris wrote:
> > > IMHO that will actually scare most people. And I'm sure they'll come up
> > > with some difficult criteria to meet before you even get to that point
> > of
> > > scheduling such that there isn't a backlog like that.
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Brad Ellis [mailto:brad@ccbootcamp.com]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 4:46 PM
> > > To: smorris@ipexpert.com; Christopher M. Heffner; Eric Dobyns; Brian
> > Dennis
> > > Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com; security@groupstudy.com;
> > comserv@groupstudy.com
> > > Subject: RE: CCIE Lab Price Increase
> > >
> > > Scott,
> > >
> > > I understood what you were referring too; ie, someone's readiness to
> > take
> > > the lab exam. I think the written exam should do a better job of
> > reflecting
> > > this "readiness" level.
> > >
> > > I'm waiting to see that last "notch" that's going to be on top of the
> > CCIE.
> > > Can you imagine the wait time to schedule an exam for a review board run
> > > format? Could be a 2-3 year waiting period. :)
> > >
> > > thanks,
> > > Brad Ellis
> > > CCIE#5796 (R&S / Security)
> > > CCSI# 30482
> > > CEO / President
> > > CCBOOTCAMP - A Cisco Sponsored Organization (SO)
> > > Email: brad@ccbootcamp.com
> > > Toll Free: 877-654-2243
> > > Direct: +1-702-968-5100 = Outside the USA
> > > Skype: skype:ccbootcamp?call
> > > FAX: +1-702-446-8012
> > > YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
> > > Training And Remote Racks: http://www.ccbootcamp.com
> > >
> > > Register to win a free iPhone! http://www.ccbootcamp.com/iphone.html
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Scott Morris [mailto:smorris@ipexpert.com]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 1:44 PM
> > > To: Brad Ellis; Christopher M. Heffner; Eric Dobyns; Brian Dennis
> > > Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com; security@groupstudy.com;
> > comserv@groupstudy.com
> > > Subject: RE: CCIE Lab Price Increase
> > >
> > > I'm not talking about the written/qualification exam. I'm talking about
> > > when someone goes into the lab!
> > >
> > > The written isn't supposed to be a measure of someone ability at the
> > lab.
> > > It never was. It's always been a differentiator between theory
> > knowledge
> > > and doing/application knowledge.
> > >
> > > I'd keep the written the way it is. I actually like the new written
> > exam (a
> > > little too much EIGRP still, but all in all good). It's just the 8-hour
> > > timeframe in the lab that I would like to see changed, and that's the
> > part
> > > that is best suited for filtering anyway.
> > >
> > > With all the testking, et al companies out there selling the exam and
> > all
> > > the testing centers that you can go to, there's not any good way to
> > control
> > > people on that exam. So wait till they come in for the big one. That's
> > the
> > > "do or don't do" place.
> > >
> > >
> > > Scott Morris, CCIE4 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service Provider) #4713,
> > JNCIE-M
> > > #153, CISSP, et al.
> > > CCSI/JNCI-M/JNCI-ER
> > > VP - Technical Training - IPexpert, Inc.
> > > IPexpert Sr. Technical Instructor
> > >
> > > A Cisco Learning Partner - We Accept Learning Credits!
> > >
> > > smorris@ipexpert.com
> > >
> > > Telephone: +1.810.326.1444
> > > Fax: +1.810.454.0130
> > > http://www.ipexpert.com
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Brad Ellis [mailto:brad@ccbootcamp.com]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 4:36 PM
> > > To: smorris@ipexpert.com; Christopher M. Heffner; Eric Dobyns; Brian
> > > Dennis
> > > Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com; security@groupstudy.com;
> > > comserv@groupstudy.com
> > > Subject: RE: CCIE Lab Price Increase
> > >
> > > Scott,
> > >
> > > I agree with you 100%. The main problem is the "qualification exam" ie,
> > > the
> > > "written exam" isn't a very good measure of an engineer's readiness to
> > > attempt the lab exam. I think there needs to be a legitimate
> > > qualification
> > > exam that truly can attest to the level of the engineers competency. For
> > > CCIE R&S, there used to be wireless on the written exam.
> > > Now there is MPLS on the written. Both technologies not being covered by
> > > the
> > > lab exam. How is this an accurate measure of the engineer's abilities to
> > > attempt the lab exam? It's not! There needs to be a more accurate
> > > measurement in place. Once that happens, I think the wait time between
> > > attempts will diminish. I also think the length of time you have to wait
> > > between attempts should correlate to your last lab exam score.
> > > Opening up some more testing centers wouldn't be a bad idea either. Just
> > > my
> > > $.02
> > >
> > > thanks,
> > > Brad Ellis
> > > CCIE#5796 (R&S / Security)
> > > CCSI# 30482
> > > CEO / President
> > > CCBOOTCAMP - A Cisco Sponsored Organization (SO)
> > > Email: brad@ccbootcamp.com
> > > Toll Free: 877-654-2243
> > > Direct: +1-702-968-5100 = Outside the USA
> > > Skype: skype:ccbootcamp?call
> > > FAX: +1-702-446-8012
> > > YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
> > > Training And Remote Racks: http://www.ccbootcamp.com
> > >
> > > Register to win a free iPhone! http://www.ccbootcamp.com/iphone.html
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Scott Morris [mailto:smorris@ipexpert.com]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 1:34 PM
> > > To: Brad Ellis; Christopher M. Heffner; Eric Dobyns; Brian Dennis
> > > Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com; security@groupstudy.com;
> > > comserv@groupstudy.com
> > > Subject: RE: CCIE Lab Price Increase
> > >
> > > If they want to make serious progress in that idea, then they'll take a
> > > different approach.
> > >
> > > 1. Start with a troubleshooting lab. 1-2 hours. If you can't figure
> > > enough things out to fix, you obviously don't know what's going on and
> > > shouldn't get to the "real" lab.
> > >
> > > 2. Shorten the real lab to 6-7 hours. People who don't make
> > > troubleshooting won't even see the real thing and therefore can't
> > > possibly
> > > copy/memorize it 'cause they went home early.
> > >
> > > Taking the same lab again is only helpful if you've figured out the
> > > answers
> > > and can actually make things work! But splitting things up like this
> > > will
> > > give a higher test of people's deep understanding of technologies rather
> > > than any sort of memorization for stuff going on.
> > >
> > > Just my thoughts. But raising the price or increasing the time between
> > > labs
> > > will irritate more good people than it will deter the ones you are
> > > trying to
> > > keep out.
> > >
> > > Some people know how things work, others do not. Filter based on that!
> > >
> > > Just my two cents.
> > >
> > >
> > > Scott Morris, CCIE4 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service Provider) #4713,
> > > JNCIE-M
> > > #153, CISSP, et al.
> > > CCSI/JNCI-M/JNCI-ER
> > > VP - Technical Training - IPexpert, Inc.
> > > IPexpert Sr. Technical Instructor
> > >
> > > A Cisco Learning Partner - We Accept Learning Credits!
> > >
> > > smorris@ipexpert.com
> > >
> > > Telephone: +1.810.326.1444
> > > Fax: +1.810.454.0130
> > > http://www.ipexpert.com
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> > > Brad
> > > Ellis
> > > Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 2:40 PM
> > > To: Christopher M. Heffner; Eric Dobyns; Brian Dennis
> > > Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com; security@groupstudy.com;
> > > comserv@groupstudy.com
> > > Subject: RE: CCIE Lab Price Increase
> > >
> > > It might suck, but that would definitely solve a bunch of problems:
> > >
> > > 1) It would make it much harder for those "real test sites" to get
> > > updates
> > > 2) The backlog wouldnb t be so bad - there would be a lot more seats
> > > available
> > > 3) People would stop using the "take the test every 30 days until I
> > > pass"
> > > technique. I know a few folks who have taken the lab like that 8 or more
> > > times until they pass. (This method gives a high percentage of "same
> > > lab"
> > > possibilities.)
> > >
> > > thanks,
> > > Brad Ellis
> > > CCIE#5796 (R&S / Security)
> > > CCSI# 30482
> > > CEO / President
> > > CCBOOTCAMP - A Cisco Sponsored Organization (SO)
> > > Email: brad@ccbootcamp.com
> > > Toll Free: 877-654-2243
> > > Direct: +1-702-968-5100 = Outside the USA
> > > Skype: skype:ccbootcamp?call
> > > FAX: +1-702-446-8012
> > > YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
> > > Training And Remote Racks: http://www.ccbootcamp.com
> > >
> > > Register to win a free iPhone! http://www.ccbootcamp.com/iphone.html
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Christopher M. Heffner [mailto:cheffner@certified-labs.com]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 11:07 AM
> > > To: Brad Ellis; Eric Dobyns; Brian Dennis
> > > Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com; security@groupstudy.com;
> > > comserv@groupstudy.com
> > > Subject: RE: CCIE Lab Price Increase
> > >
> > > Now that would really "suck" big time!
> > >
> > > Chris Heffner, CCIE 8211, CCSI 98760
> > > Strategic Network Solutions, Inc.
> > >
> > > www.certified-labs.com
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Brad Ellis [mailto:brad@ccbootcamp.com]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 2:22 PM
> > > To: Christopher M. Heffner; Eric Dobyns; Brian Dennis
> > > Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com; security@groupstudy.com;
> > > comserv@groupstudy.com
> > > Subject: RE: CCIE Lab Price Increase
> > >
> > > I've heard that Cisco may change their re-take policy from 30 days to 6
> > > months for failed tests...but just rumors so far.
> > >
> > > thanks,
> > > Brad Ellis
> > > CCIE#5796 (R&S / Security)
> > > CCSI# 30482
> > > CEO / President
> > > CCBOOTCAMP - A Cisco Sponsored Organization (SO)
> > > Email: brad@ccbootcamp.com
> > > Toll Free: 877-654-2243
> > > Direct: +1-702-968-5100 = Outside the USA
> > > Skype: skype:ccbootcamp?call
> > > FAX: +1-702-446-8012
> > > YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
> > > Training And Remote Racks: http://www.ccbootcamp.com
> > >
> > > Register to win a free iPhone! http://www.ccbootcamp.com/iphone.html
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> > > Christopher M. Heffner
> > > Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 10:32 AM
> > > To: Eric Dobyns; Brian Dennis
> > > Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com; security@groupstudy.com;
> > > comserv@groupstudy.com
> > > Subject: RE: CCIE Lab Price Increase
> > > Importance: Low
> > >
> > > Please DON'T give them any ideas.
> > >
> > > This is an expensive enough profession.
> > >
> > > Chris Heffner, CCIE 8211, CCSI 98760
> > > Strategic Network Solutions, Inc.
> > >
> > > www.certified-labs.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Eric Dobyns [mailto:eric_dobyns@yahoo.com]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 1:43 PM
> > > To: 'Brian Dennis'; Christopher M. Heffner
> > > Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com; security@groupstudy.com;
> > > comserv@groupstudy.com
> > > Subject: RE: CCIE Lab Price Increase
> > >
> > > Right now, I think they could charge twice that and still fill up their
> > > seats.
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> > > Brian Dennis
> > > Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 9:22 PM
> > > To: Christopher M. Heffner
> > > Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com; security@groupstudy.com;
> > > comserv@groupstudy.com
> > > Subject: Re: CCIE Lab Price Increase
> > >
> > > Someone "announced" it here a few weeks ago ;-)
> > >
> > > Brian Dennis, CCIE4 #2210 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/SP)
> > > bdennis@internetworkexpert.com
> > >
> > > Internetwork Expert, Inc.
> > > http://www.InternetworkExpert.com
> > > Toll Free: 877-224-8987
> > > Direct: 775-745-6404 (Outside the US and Canada)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Oct 8, 2007, at 6:00 PM, Christopher M. Heffner wrote:
> > >
> > > > Did anyone else notice the lab price increase made by Cisco for the
> > > > CCIE Labs?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I noticed when checking lab dates that the price for the lab is now
> > > > $1400.00 per attempt.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I donb t see any announcement on the CCIE website for the price
> > > > increase.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Is this just being quietly changed without an announcement?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Christopher M. Heffner, CCIE 8211, CCSI 98760
> > > >
> > > > Strategic Network Solutions, Inc.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > HYPERLINK "http://www.certified-labs.com/"www.certified-labs.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > b(*
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > > > Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.0/1046 - Release Date:
> > > > 10/3/2007 10:08 AM
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________________________________
> > > Subscription information may be found at:
> > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> > >
> > >
> > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > > Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.0/1046 - Release Date:
> > > 10/3/2007 10:08 AM
> > > b(*
> > >
> > > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > > Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.0/1046 - Release Date:
> > > 10/3/2007 10:08 AM
> > >
> > > _____________________________________________________________________
> > > Subscription information: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/comserv.html
> > >
> > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > > Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.0/1046 - Release Date:
> > > 10/3/2007
> > > 10:08 AM
> > > b(*
> > >
> > > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > > Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.0/1046 - Release Date:
> > > 10/3/2007
> > > 10:08 AM
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________________________________
> > > Subscription information may be found at:
> > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> >
> > _______________________________________________________________________
> > Subscription information may be found at:
> > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Narbik Kocharians
> CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
> CCSI# 30832
> www.Net-WorkBooks.com
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Subscription information may be found at:
> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
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