From: Scott M Vermillion (scott@it-ag.com)
Date: Tue Oct 02 2007 - 13:27:18 ART
Hi Darby,
I know you're looking for vendor response, and I hope their lawyers allow
them to chime in! ;~)
I am aware of a Cisco employee who gave a public presentation (it was at
Networkers or something of that scale) that encouraged the use of Dynamips
for CCIE lab prep. Unless he was a total loose cannon, I think that speaks
volumes. Also, consider that Cisco condones the use of IOS for lab prep and
evaluation purposes. In the case of the former, CCIEs are probably the best
sales weapon Cisco ever had. In the case of the latter, "try before you
buy" is an age-old marketing technique.
Now were vendors packaging IOS with some kind of for-profit product, Cisco
would come down with an iron fist. But IOS running in a VM type of
environment cannot operate in a production network; no one is avoiding the
purchase of Cisco hardware by way of Dynamips. In other words, Cisco does
not stand to lose one single dollar as a result of the existence of
Dynamips. On the other hand, they may stand to gain quite a bit by way of a
better-educated "sales force." Also, there have been times in the past when
Cisco sent me as many as half a dozen demo routers so that I could prototype
a new design or technology for a client. I am now often able to do my
prototyping in Dynamips and in doing so, I save Cisco money and effort by
keeping those demo routers/switches back at the demo warehouse! It's a
win-win and my guess is that Cisco will have no official, publicly quotable
response to Dynamips, but will rather allow their silence to speak for
them...
Regards,
Scott
-----Original Message-----
From: Darby Weaver [mailto:darbyweaver@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 7:25 AM
To: Ben Holko; Joseph Brunner; Scott M Vermillion; Cisco certification
Subject: RE: Dynamips - Is it legal to use it with Cisco's IOS for Study?
Understood, and that is probably how it is taken by
all, however, should forums and lists and those who
run those fourms/lists be advocating the usage of the
IOS other than it was originally intended to be used
by Cisco.
An individual, my use what he or she pleases, a legal
entity, may wish to be a bit more aboveboard, for
obvious reasons.
Does Cisco even have a take on the Dynamips or even
the PEMU for that matter?
--- Ben Holko <ben.holko@datacom.com.au> wrote:
> Personally my view would be that it is not the
> author's problem to worry about this, nor any study
> vendor.
>
> Think of it like this; you buy VMWare ESX (or use a
> free VMWare product), and you install a Windows VM.
> Do you think it is VMWare's issue to make sure that
> you have the correct Microsoft licences?
>
> Now in the case if Dynamips it may be that it will
> not run anything other than IOS, and this is what it
> was designed for, but I would think it is not the
> author's responsibility - I do recall something on
> the Dynamips page about ensuring that you have the
> correct IOS licence.
>
> Ben
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com on behalf of Darby
> Weaver
> Sent: Tue 2/10/2007 4:26 PM
> To: Joseph Brunner; 'Scott M Vermillion'; 'Cisco
> certification'
> Subject: OT: Dynamips - Is it legal to use it with
> Cisco's IOS for Study?
>
>
>
> At this point you think this question would have
> been
> answered completely and concisely.
>
> On a forum I am a member of, some of our members are
> concerned about the legality of using Dynamips and
> the
> IOS and violating the terms of usage of the IOS as
> provided by Cisco's copyright or fair usage etc.
> Whatever the exact legal language may be.
>
> A newly formed "watchdog forum" called certguard was
> asked about this matter and they consulted the
> author
> of Dynamips and he gave his response - available on
> the certguard forum.
>
> Now my question is primarily aimed at the vendors
> here
> since I suspect they have the answer already since
> they are offering lab workbooks (one of which I'm
> preparing to by at this very moment) and are
> generally
> condoning and supporting the usdage of Dynamips for.
>
> I do not mean to sound "out of my mind" by asking
> the
> question, since obviously this is the best lab prep
> tool since a real router came along... and got
> affordable on ebay (I do not think Cisco is happy
> about that market either - used/gray) but it is a
> part
> of life now too.
>
> So here are the questions:
>
> 1. Are users of Dynamips using the IOS illegally and
> against what the IOS was designed to do by using it
> with Dynamips?
>
> 2. Obviously people can do whatever they want in
> their
> own homes, but are forums and lists like groupstudy,
> or even vendors to be considered
> ethically-challenged
> for condoning and even recommending the usage of
> Dynamips in this fashion.
>
> 3. What is Cisco's official take on the matter?
>
> It may sound odd to some of us here, but I have a
> very
> devout group of upcoming networking engineers who
> care
> very much what Cisco thinks and they do not wish to
> be
> amoral, nor appear unethical in any way, and while
> some really want to use the product, do not want to
> publicly create a legal issue for themselves and the
> forums/lists they frequent in the future.
>
>
> So if anyone has the definitive answer and I suspect
> guys like NetMasterClass, InternetworkExpert and
> others who are catering to the use of Dynamips have
> already bridged this question and have a firm and
> quotable answer from Cisco that is going to be very
> satisfactoty.
>
> Sorry if this has already come up and I missed it,
> but
> I read GS alot and did not think it passed my eyes
> before.
>
> I must admit that since I own several real racks of
> gear and always have at least one fully reachable
> from
> anywhere on the Internet, this has never been a
> question for me, but I am also concerned since I,
> too,
> am seeing a definate need and place for this
> outstanding little tool called Dynamips. And I love
> the fact that guys like InternetworkExpert support a
> workbook dedicated to it as well.
>
>
> - I know what is this guy thinking at 2:30am in the
> morning... I've got an appointment tomorrow that
> scares the hell out of me and I'm having trouble
> sleeping - no it is not a lab.
>
> :)
>
>
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