From: sheherezada@gmail.com
Date: Mon Sep 24 2007 - 18:01:13 ART
I am not in the US, but I worked for a big and respected big blue
company in a country with only 17 CCIEs at that time. You know what?
HR decisions based on "regional market research" multiplied by 0.75
(because of the brand) still apply. I could have understand if they
told me "look, we don't have too many contracts right now, that's why
we can give you only a 5% raise because of your CCIE". But my manager
actually told me "look, the demand for CCIEs in the market is only
occasional, if there is such a thing. You will see that by the end of
the year we will have double the number of CCIEs, so we will have
plenty to choose from". So I left. I am happy now with what I am
doing and what I am paid for. And the big corporate hired someone
less qualified, after four months of searching, with a higher salary.
It happens all the time. You can not fight the HR policies in a big
corporate. It's about their perception, not yours. You are just a
"resource" that might become expensive for no apparent reason - so
pray for Cisco to invest more into marketing CCIE.
Mihai
#16616
On 9/24/07, Santiamo <ccie@texas.net> wrote:
> I think that either I did not accurately convey my concern or there is a
> issue with translation. Probably my fault.
>
> My main concern was with market viability of the CCIE and the misconceptions
> that HR has about what the CCIE number brings to the table. It can be very
> frustrating and at times, deflating. Especially when the recruiters or HR
> tell you that they can get a CCIE for 70K-80K.
>
> I was interested in responses from those who have lived it, thus already
> have had their CCIE's for awhile.
>
> As for the comment about looking at this from a cert point of view, I don't
> think anyone here would even pursue the CCIE, if the IE number only brought
> you 60K/yr for your efforts. The CCIE is a way of getting the foot in the
> door. Especially on federal and DOD contracts. Thus, there are those with
> CCNP level experience willing to bust their butts, study hard and do the
> work, to get their foot in the door.
>
> As Narbikk stated to me at one time, studying hard for the CCIE, even if I
> don't pass, at the very least, will afford me greater understanding than the
> CCNP alone.
>
> Thanks for the input guys.
>
>
>
> Santi
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> Guyler, Rik
> Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 7:26 AM
> To: 'Joseph Brunner'; 'Santiamo'; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: RE: Hurry up and get your number before its too late!
>
> All true Joe. I think Santiamo is looking at this strictly from a
> certification perspective rather than a learning experience. Most of us
> that have been doing this for some time agree that what we learn along the
> way is really what makes us the "expert" and not the certificate at the end.
> The certificate is an awesome reward true enough but the real "prize" is the
> learning experience working towards that.
>
> I don't have my certificate yet but learning what I have over years in
> preparation have made me a much better Engineer than I ever would have been
> without the experience. And that is worth a nice increase in salary.
>
> Rik
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> Joseph Brunner
> Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 10:44 PM
> To: 'Santiamo'; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: RE: Hurry up and get your number before its too late!
>
> You're wrong...
>
> Forget the certification in and of it self. Consider what value knowing a
> "CCIE" level of knowledge is worth. You need to be an excellent designer,
> integrator, troubleshooter, and much much more to be worth anything.
>
> I have ran on about all the bad people I have worked with over the years...
>
> You should at least do it to make sure if you are in the field you have a
> clue of what you're doing...
>
> I solve problems all the time in my consulting arena that because of my CCIE
> studies are easy and take seconds. Years back they would have taken days or
> I wouldn't have been able to solve them at all.
>
> ;)
>
> Joe
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> Santiamo
> Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 10:26 PM
> To: ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: RE: Hurry up and get your number before its too late!
>
> Kind of indicates a market trend or belief that the CCIE is not as viable
> in todays job market and that it looks to become less viable. Kind of makes
> me wonder, what would be the point of achieving the CCIE if others believe
> it is easy or not worth as much?
>
> I am studying for my R&S as my first IE attempt, then move on to the
> Security. I will not move beyond two, since I believe it is not feasible to
> realistically be an expert beyond two. But, with everything that I have
> seen on the market and on Groupstudy, I am starting get really discouraged
> in the pursuit of the CCIE.
>
> Any advice from the ones you have been out there for a while?
>
> Santi
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of Gary
> Duncanson
> Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2007 10:31 AM
> To: WorkerBee
> Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: Re: Hurry up and get your number before its too late!
>
> Numbers aside, lots of people survive complex work and responsibilities
> without the CCIE. They basically want someone with the CCIE who has
> experience really and this is the yardstick they choose to use. Anyone
> whizzo who has recently found the time to clear the CCIE need not apply. Any
> old timers who got laid off the last few years but kept up with recerts can
> apply.
>
> Strange. But I suppose they have their reasons!
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "WorkerBee" <ciscobee@gmail.com>
> To: "Guyler, Rik" <rguyler@shp-dayton.org>
> Cc: "Scott Vermillion" <scott_ccie_list@it-ag.com>; "Gregory Gombas"
> <ggombas@gmail.com>; "Cisco certification" <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2007 1:51 AM
> Subject: Re: Hurry up and get your number before its too late!
>
>
> > What the ads is trying to say is, I want a CCIE with at least 2 years
> > of being a CCIE after passing the lab exam. numbers < 15000 will at
> > least have gone through one paper re-certification. Probably, they
> > should rephrase it as "minimum 2 years of working experience as a
> > certified CCIE" maybe sounds more pleasant...
> >
> > Passing the lab and carrying that number with you with your job is a
> > massive responsibility. If you can survive that massive number hanging
> > around the neck for at least 2 years and working in networking related
> > field with a fairly decent complex work, chances are, you're not a
> > *fake* paper CCIE. :p
> >
> > Sales folks also carry number, so does a CCIE. But the good thing is,
> > our number never grows year-on-year~ :)
> >
> >
> > On 9/22/07, Guyler, Rik <rguyler@shp-dayton.org> wrote:
> >> Oooooh...Nrf's gonna get you guys.... ;-)
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
> >> Of Scott Vermillion
> >> Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 4:19 PM
> >> To: 'Gregory Gombas'; 'Joseph Brunner'
> >> Cc: 'Cisco certification'
> >> Subject: RE: Hurry up and get your number before its too late!
> >>
> >> Used car salesmen have values??
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
> >> Of Gregory Gombas
> >> Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 2:03 PM
> >> To: Joseph Brunner
> >> Cc: Cisco certification
> >> Subject: Re: Hurry up and get your number before its too late!
> >>
> >> Yup - There are a lot of clueless managers who think the CCIE is now
> >> a lot easier than it was back in the days. These are the same
> >> ex-engineers who haven't logged into a router in five years.
> >>
> >> Can you believe I even had a headhunter tell me once that the CCIE is
> >> easy now and you can find copies of the lab on the web!!!
> >> This is coming from someone with little more technical ability and
> >> the values of a used car salesman!
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 9/21/07, Joseph Brunner <joe@affirmedsystems.com> wrote:
> >> > Really?
> >> >
> >> > My old boss was like 65XX. Do you think he has a clue about modern
> >> > qos,
> >> and
> >> > what is going on now?
> >> >
> >> > I once had to explain to him why we don't use custom queuing for
> >> > our voip between the offices... ;)
> >> >
> >> > The time holding the CCIE doesn't always translate into more years
> >> > of staying on top. Not all Generals serve in Brian Dennis's, Scott
> >> > Morris's
> >> and
> >> > Nardik's active duty command.
> >> >
> >> > Many retreat to arm chair's, bbq's and raising children.
> >> >
> >> > I interviewed 89XX back in March. It was as disaster. He was a
> >> > double IE, R&S/SECURITY. He couldn't tell me how to configure a
> >> > catalyst switch to support a cisco voip deployment.
> >> >
> >> > NO kidding...
> >> >
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On
> >> > Behalf Of Gregory Gombas
> >> > Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 11:11 AM
> >> > To: Cisco certification
> >> > Subject: Hurry up and get your number before its too late!
> >> >
> >> > Check out this job ad - says they prefer CCIE below 15000. I
> >> > remember a few years ago they wanted CCIE's below 10000. Next it
> >> > will be below 20000 - hope I make that threshold!
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> http://seeker.dice.com/jobsearch/servlet/JobSearch?op=101&dockey=xml/f/6/f6d
> >> > a82e500534edb88b4d2ab26945b0f@endecaindex&c=1&source=20
> >> >
> >> > ___________________________________________________________________
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> >>
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