From: Joseph Brunner (joe@affirmedsystems.com)
Date: Mon Sep 24 2007 - 17:31:21 ART
>My main concern was with market viability of the CCIE and the
>misconceptions that HR has about what the CCIE number brings to the table.
>It can be very frustrating and at times, deflating. Especially when the
>recruiters or HR tell you that they can get a CCIE for 70K-80K.
Where are you?
Even in the worst parts of the country... are you telling me that is what
you're hearing for salary?
I see "texas.net" in your email address... Are you telling me in Texas a
CCIE is expected to work for 60 to 70k?
A CCNA in NYC makes 90k+, a CCNP 110k+, a CCIE 120 to 140k+.
I don't know Texas, but I voted for your ex-governor twice! ;)
Let's get to the root of the issue you're talking about... I'm confused.
Let me understand this, you are under the impression that a CCIE does not
earn a respectable pay check where you are, so you are considering not going
for it, or if you go for and pass, you're worried you wont get the $$$
you're expecting?
How's that?
Well nothing in life is certain. You could die tomorrow, or on the way home
from work today. Your life is a vapor. Nothing you will do may matter after
you're gone. If you want the big bucks go be a lawyer or investment banker.
I used to argue with NRF a lot in the professional boards. He was right.
We don't get the seven, eight figure bonuses year after year. If you want
that kind of money, pick up a baseball bat and join the majors. Don't come
here and complain about $$$. We all know life is expensive.
I just booked my CCIE lab airfare, hotel and rental car again yesterday. I
paid for my upcoming lab attempt last week. I'll pass on the next or the
10th attempt. I don't care. I'll make between $0 and $400,000 a year once I
pass. Life is risk. If I wanted to have a guarantee I would have went to
school and worked for the government.
Good luck, case closed.
-Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
Santiamo
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 4:06 PM
To: ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: RE: Hurry up and get your number before its too late!
I think that either I did not accurately convey my concern or there is a
issue with translation. Probably my fault.
My main concern was with market viability of the CCIE and the misconceptions
that HR has about what the CCIE number brings to the table. It can be very
frustrating and at times, deflating. Especially when the recruiters or HR
tell you that they can get a CCIE for 70K-80K.
I was interested in responses from those who have lived it, thus already
have had their CCIE's for awhile.
As for the comment about looking at this from a cert point of view, I don't
think anyone here would even pursue the CCIE, if the IE number only brought
you 60K/yr for your efforts. The CCIE is a way of getting the foot in the
door. Especially on federal and DOD contracts. Thus, there are those with
CCNP level experience willing to bust their butts, study hard and do the
work, to get their foot in the door.
As Narbikk stated to me at one time, studying hard for the CCIE, even if I
don't pass, at the very least, will afford me greater understanding than the
CCNP alone.
Thanks for the input guys.
Santi
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
Guyler, Rik
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 7:26 AM
To: 'Joseph Brunner'; 'Santiamo'; ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: RE: Hurry up and get your number before its too late!
All true Joe. I think Santiamo is looking at this strictly from a
certification perspective rather than a learning experience. Most of us
that have been doing this for some time agree that what we learn along the
way is really what makes us the "expert" and not the certificate at the end.
The certificate is an awesome reward true enough but the real "prize" is the
learning experience working towards that.
I don't have my certificate yet but learning what I have over years in
preparation have made me a much better Engineer than I ever would have been
without the experience. And that is worth a nice increase in salary.
Rik
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
Joseph Brunner
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 10:44 PM
To: 'Santiamo'; ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: RE: Hurry up and get your number before its too late!
You're wrong...
Forget the certification in and of it self. Consider what value knowing a
"CCIE" level of knowledge is worth. You need to be an excellent designer,
integrator, troubleshooter, and much much more to be worth anything.
I have ran on about all the bad people I have worked with over the years...
You should at least do it to make sure if you are in the field you have a
clue of what you're doing...
I solve problems all the time in my consulting arena that because of my CCIE
studies are easy and take seconds. Years back they would have taken days or
I wouldn't have been able to solve them at all.
;)
Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
Santiamo
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 10:26 PM
To: ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: RE: Hurry up and get your number before its too late!
Kind of indicates a market trend or belief that the CCIE is not as viable
in todays job market and that it looks to become less viable. Kind of makes
me wonder, what would be the point of achieving the CCIE if others believe
it is easy or not worth as much?
I am studying for my R&S as my first IE attempt, then move on to the
Security. I will not move beyond two, since I believe it is not feasible to
realistically be an expert beyond two. But, with everything that I have
seen on the market and on Groupstudy, I am starting get really discouraged
in the pursuit of the CCIE.
Any advice from the ones you have been out there for a while?
Santi
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of Gary
Duncanson
Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2007 10:31 AM
To: WorkerBee
Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: Re: Hurry up and get your number before its too late!
Numbers aside, lots of people survive complex work and responsibilities
without the CCIE. They basically want someone with the CCIE who has
experience really and this is the yardstick they choose to use. Anyone
whizzo who has recently found the time to clear the CCIE need not apply. Any
old timers who got laid off the last few years but kept up with recerts can
apply.
Strange. But I suppose they have their reasons!
----- Original Message -----
From: "WorkerBee" <ciscobee@gmail.com>
To: "Guyler, Rik" <rguyler@shp-dayton.org>
Cc: "Scott Vermillion" <scott_ccie_list@it-ag.com>; "Gregory Gombas"
<ggombas@gmail.com>; "Cisco certification" <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2007 1:51 AM
Subject: Re: Hurry up and get your number before its too late!
> What the ads is trying to say is, I want a CCIE with at least 2 years
> of being a CCIE after passing the lab exam. numbers < 15000 will at
> least have gone through one paper re-certification. Probably, they
> should rephrase it as "minimum 2 years of working experience as a
> certified CCIE" maybe sounds more pleasant...
>
> Passing the lab and carrying that number with you with your job is a
> massive responsibility. If you can survive that massive number hanging
> around the neck for at least 2 years and working in networking related
> field with a fairly decent complex work, chances are, you're not a
> *fake* paper CCIE. :p
>
> Sales folks also carry number, so does a CCIE. But the good thing is,
> our number never grows year-on-year~ :)
>
>
> On 9/22/07, Guyler, Rik <rguyler@shp-dayton.org> wrote:
>> Oooooh...Nrf's gonna get you guys.... ;-)
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
>> Of Scott Vermillion
>> Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 4:19 PM
>> To: 'Gregory Gombas'; 'Joseph Brunner'
>> Cc: 'Cisco certification'
>> Subject: RE: Hurry up and get your number before its too late!
>>
>> Used car salesmen have values??
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
>> Of Gregory Gombas
>> Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 2:03 PM
>> To: Joseph Brunner
>> Cc: Cisco certification
>> Subject: Re: Hurry up and get your number before its too late!
>>
>> Yup - There are a lot of clueless managers who think the CCIE is now
>> a lot easier than it was back in the days. These are the same
>> ex-engineers who haven't logged into a router in five years.
>>
>> Can you believe I even had a headhunter tell me once that the CCIE is
>> easy now and you can find copies of the lab on the web!!!
>> This is coming from someone with little more technical ability and
>> the values of a used car salesman!
>>
>>
>>
>> On 9/21/07, Joseph Brunner <joe@affirmedsystems.com> wrote:
>> > Really?
>> >
>> > My old boss was like 65XX. Do you think he has a clue about modern
>> > qos,
>> and
>> > what is going on now?
>> >
>> > I once had to explain to him why we don't use custom queuing for
>> > our voip between the offices... ;)
>> >
>> > The time holding the CCIE doesn't always translate into more years
>> > of staying on top. Not all Generals serve in Brian Dennis's, Scott
>> > Morris's
>> and
>> > Nardik's active duty command.
>> >
>> > Many retreat to arm chair's, bbq's and raising children.
>> >
>> > I interviewed 89XX back in March. It was as disaster. He was a
>> > double IE, R&S/SECURITY. He couldn't tell me how to configure a
>> > catalyst switch to support a cisco voip deployment.
>> >
>> > NO kidding...
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On
>> > Behalf Of Gregory Gombas
>> > Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 11:11 AM
>> > To: Cisco certification
>> > Subject: Hurry up and get your number before its too late!
>> >
>> > Check out this job ad - says they prefer CCIE below 15000. I
>> > remember a few years ago they wanted CCIE's below 10000. Next it
>> > will be below 20000 - hope I make that threshold!
>> >
>> >
>>
http://seeker.dice.com/jobsearch/servlet/JobSearch?op=101&dockey=xml/f/6/f6d
>> > a82e500534edb88b4d2ab26945b0f@endecaindex&c=1&source=20
>> >
>> > ___________________________________________________________________
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