From: Gary Duncanson (gary.duncanson@googlemail.com)
Date: Tue Aug 21 2007 - 15:56:13 ART
Virtualisation is ok.
But like you say it's not a complete substitute for hands on experience.
If you are designing new data centres and you want to be sure the job is
done right it pays to know how things should hang together. The same goes if
you are integrating old and new equipment. Little things can get missed or
botched if the installations are outsourced.
Get's expensive too if you order the wrong physicals. Your sponsor won't
care about your BGP finite state machine knowledge then.
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gregory Gombas" <ggombas@gmail.com>
To: <bdennis@internetworkexpert.com>
Cc: "Cisco certification" <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 4:43 PM
Subject: Re: Virtual CCIE's?
> Brian - thats absolutely true, I think the more you advance the less
> you touch the actual equipment (especially in larger companies).
>
> The company I work for now does not even allow engineers into the data
> center much less rack and stack your own equipment. So I do pretty
> much everything "virtually".
>
> But more often than not I have to reach back into the knowledge bank
> from my earlier NOC/Implementation days to troubleshoot a problem with
> incorrect cabling, doing loopback testing with a carrier to fix a
> circuit issue, or troubleshoot faulty hardware.
>
> Yes, its true, none of the aforementioned skills are tested on the
> CCIE lab, but I can't imagine surviving as an engineer without them. I
> know of one guy who was hired because of his CCNP and he aced the
> technical interview - he memorized the BGP path selection algorithm,
> knew all the OSPF adjacency states (attempt, init, 2way etc) and had
> memorized all the fields in every packet type imaginable.
> But when it came to bringing up a DS3 to a new branch office the guy
> was clueless. And one time during a network outage he wasted 20
> minutes trying to locate the power switch on a catalyst 6509 to
> rebooot it.
>
> True, its the job of the hiring manager to test those
> qualities....although I know quite a few hiring manager's who will
> hire a CCIE on the spot with no technical interview whatsoever.
>
> My $.02
> Greg
>
> On 8/21/07, Brian Dennis <bdennis@internetworkexpert.com> wrote:
>> If someone does the majority of their preparation on Dynamips over using
>> remote rack rentals what is the real difference? They are both just IOS
>> based routers that you access via telnet. Remember that Dynamips runs
>> the
>> same IOS that you use on a real router so once you're telneted into it
>> you
>> won't know the difference.
>>
>> There are a lot of CCIEs that rarely if ever get to "touch" a router but
>> I
>> wouldn't call them virtual CCIEs. In fact I would rather have someone
>> else rack mount all my devices and cable them up for me ;-)
>>
>> HTH,
>>
>> Brian Dennis, CCIE4 #2210 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/SP)
>> bdennis@internetworkexpert.com
>>
>> Internetwork Expert, Inc.
>> http://www.InternetworkExpert.com
>> Toll Free: 877-224-8987
>> Direct: 775-745-6404 (Outside the US and Canada)
>>
>>
>> >----- Original Message -----
>> Subject: Virtual CCIE's?
>> Date: Mon, August 20, 2007 18:19
>> From: "Gregory Gombas" <ggombas@gmail.com>
>>
>> > Guys,
>> >
>> > I was checking out Dynamips and its pretty cool and all, but it does
>> > worry me a little bit....
>> >
>> > How will employers view the CCIE certification after they've been
>> > burned by hiring a CCIE who has never touched a real router in their
>> > life?
>> >
>> > Do you like the idea of a pilot flying your plane whose only training
>> > was with a virtual flight simulator?
>> >
>> > I remember the days when the MCSE was a hot cert until an army of
>> > paper CCIE's hit the job market.
>> >
>> > Maybe they won't call it a paper CCIE, maybe they'll coin a new term
>> > like virtual CCIE.
>> >
>> > Just food for thought...
>> >
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