From: Gary Duncanson (gary.duncanson@googlemail.com)
Date: Fri Jun 22 2007 - 20:05:44 ART
Yeah hardware changes in the lab are par for the course. Plenty of fuss a
few years back when 3550's came in.
As for 6500's, got 'em at work.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan" <ryan95842@gmail.com>
To: "Narbik Kocharians" <narbikk@gmail.com>
Cc: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 9:14 PM
Subject: Re: Rumor mill time - Cat 6500 on R&S lab exam?
> Well, we all know YOU are not...
>
> It just seems that anytime there is any possibility of any kind of
> hardware
> change/addition to the lab, half the list population gets all up in arms
> about this being unfair or that being too hard or whatever. Look at the
> giant ordeal that became of the additional switches a year ago...
>
> If we are studying for the CCIE, we, as candidates, should not be
> intimidate
> or surprised by anything the test makers throw at us. I'm surprised they
> even post the hardware list/IOS. The way I see it, the CCIE is like the
> "Special Forces" of networking. Your supposed to be elite and prepared for
> almost anything. Granted you can not try out every possible scenario, but
> if
> you train in the fundamentals and the technology and theory, you should be
> able to walk into the lab and given a set of requirements and hardware,
> meet
> the objectives and accomplish the goal. Their is no whinnying about how
> many
> switches you have to configure or whether or not your router is a 3800 or
> a
> 2500. You take what they give you, meet the objectives and accomplish the
> mission. Period.
>
> Same with a job/contract. As a CCIE, you walk in to the customers site and
> discover all kinds of things going on. You don't get to complain or whine
> to
> the customer that their network is too complex or they have old cat 5505's
> or whatever. You don't get to walk out and say it's too hard or you never
> worked on X before. Instead you grab the doc CD, learn what you need too,
> and make their network work.
>
> Now with my rant/diatribe over, I'll step off the ole soap box. So if we
> are
> strictly talking about a wish list for what we would like to see in the
> lab,
> sure, I'd love to have a 6500 or 3 or 4 in there. Is it going to change
> anything? Nope, I don't think so...be pretty cool though...
>
> just my 2cents...
>
>
> -Ryan
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 6/22/07, Narbik Kocharians <narbikk@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Ryan,
>>
>> I dont think that anyone is scared, we are just stating out wish list,
>> that's all. I don;t think that anyone is scred of any protocol or
>> technology.
>>
>>
>> On 6/22/07, Ryan <ryan95842@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > 65xx/76xx
>> >
>> > It's a freaking router people!!! (ok, Multi-layer switch)...what's the
>> > big
>> > deal???
>> >
>> > Why is everyone so scared and intimidated of the thing? I seriously
>> > don't
>> > get it...
>> >
>> > Maybe someone could explain why it's so "hard" to use one...I've been
>> > using
>> > them for over 6 years...so what. Nothing on the 6509 I've done has
>> > required
>> > any kind of magical super talent/knowledge.
>> >
>> > It's just another piece of hardware folks...big whoop.
>> >
>> >
>> > -Ryan
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On 6/22/07, Joe Mama <jsmith1234550@gmail.com > wrote:
>> > >
>> > > All,
>> > >
>> > > One more thing....
>> > >
>> > > Every large company will buy a 6500 and Cisco really doesn't need to
>> > > market this platform all that much as the 3560. Most companies I've
>> > > worked for use them for Access, Dsitribution, Core, etc. There
>> > > really
>> > > is no competiton; a 6500 is awesome!
>> > >
>> > > If every CCIE knows the 3560, then, when they go to make a choice for
>> > > a small site, etc/ they will know all of the features and choose the
>> > > trusty switch that got them their ccie......you see what i mean? The
>> > > CCIE is a good way for Cisco to market their newer products that are
>> > > not that well klnown but are great for a small site. Cisco's main
>> > > competion is in this area. In some of our very small sites, we run
>> > > 2811's / 3560's / 3845's and they are fantastic and extremely
>> > > powerful
>> > > (in RAM and feature set capability, etc..) and I certainly am very
>> > > comfortable with them due to my studies, etc. and would not even
>> > > propose another type of network device (from another company) because
>> > > I am so confident in their abilities.
>> > >
>> > > The 3560 and 3845 platforms are great! Of course, for any decent
>> > > size
>> >
>> > > campus, only 65xx-E with SUP720x will do, but Cisco really doesn't
>> > > need to push this. Also, as was mentioned, having 4 6500's in a
>> > > regualr R&S lab would limit the number of people going for CCIes
>> > > which
>> >
>> > > would not be good for Cisco......
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Joe
>> > >
>> > > Andre
>> > >
>> > > Joe
>> > >
>> > > On 6/22/07, Gary Duncanson <gary.duncanson@googlemail.com > wrote:
>> > > > Yeah,
>> > > >
>> > > > In some situations a CCIE is a metric of what you should be
>> > *capable*
>> > > of,
>> > > > not necessarily what you can *do* straight off the bat.
>> > > >
>> > > > Nobody knows everything. The CCIE provides as much as is reasonable
>> > on
>> > > the
>> > > > 'stuff to learn' and 'stuff to do' front. How far a candidate
>> > chooses to
>> > > > take that is a variable.
>> > > >
>> > > > For example the recommended reading list does covers a lot of
>> > > > things
>> > > that
>> > > > are not tested in the lab but are still potentially very useful to
>> > know.
>> > > >
>> > > > I think it's very useful for a CCIE to have at least a handle on
>> > > switching
>> > > > platforms that are not tested but if you check the recommended
>> > reading
>> > > > list..its there in Kennedy Clark and has been for 8 years..
>> > > >
>> > > > http://www.ciscopress.com/bookstore/product.asp?isbn=1578700949&rl=1
>> > > >
>> > > > So you can certainly get some knowhow there during the course of
>> > your
>> > > CCIE
>> > > > studies.
>> > > >
>> > > > In the lab today, ISDN etc is off. That doesn't mean we won't ever
>> > find
>> > > ISDN
>> > > > out there or DLSW+ or connections to DEC/VAX someplace.
>> > > >
>> > > > But whatever you come up against in the world of work I would say
>> > having
>> > > a
>> > > > CCIE probably demonstrates to an employer that you are quite
>> > > > capable
>> > of
>> > > > figuring more than a few things out.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > ----- Original Message -----
>> > > > From: "Scott Morris" <smorris@ipexpert.com>
>> > > > To: "'Jason Plank'" < Jason_Plank@condenast.com>; "'Serdar Kut'"
>> > > > <kutserdar@gmail.com>; "'Narbik Kocharians'" < narbikk@gmail.com>
>> > > > Cc: "'Mike Kraus (mikraus)'" <mikraus@cisco.com>; "'Eric Dobyns'"
>> > > > < eric_dobyns@yahoo.com>; "'Digital Yemeni'" <
>> > digital.yemeni@gmail.com>;
>> > > > <ccielab@groupstudy.com >
>> > > > Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 4:29 PM
>> > > > Subject: RE: Rumor mill time - Cat 6500 on R&S lab exam?
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > > What are you looking for the CCIE to do for you? If you are
>> > telling
>> > > me
>> > > > > that
>> > > > > a person who has his/her CCIE cannot reasonably sit down and
>> > FIGURE
>> > > OUT
>> > > > > the
>> > > > > 6500 or new things, then I'd say that person didn't study enough
>> > for
>> > > their
>> > > > > exam and got pretty damned lucky.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Nobody knows everything. And you can't design a test around
>> > > everything.
>> > > > > While marketing people would love you for saying it's their top
>> > > product, I
>> > > > > would say that certainly has to do with what market/application
>> > you
>> > > are
>> > > > > playing in. If it's all you see, I'm happy for you, but it's not
>> > all
>> > > > > that's
>> > > > > out there!
>> > > > >
>> > > > > So how many pieces of equipment would you like to see show up in
>> > the
>> > > CCIE
>> > > > > lab?
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Not having touched and knowing nothing are two completely
>> > different
>> > > > > concepts. There are many blades on a 6500 I haven't touched
>> > before,
>> > > but
>> > > > > I'd
>> > > > > like to think I could figure them out if needed! THAT is being a
>> > > CCIE.
>> > > > > Not
>> > > > > necessarily touching anything and everything.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Relax and focus on the important things.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Should you need to renew/retake your drivers license if you
>> > > > > decide
>> > you
>> > > > > want
>> > > > > an SUV instead of a car, or a hybrid instead of a "regular"
>> > car? Or a
>> > > > > pickup truck?
>> > > > >
>> > > > > I mean... They ARE different.
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Scott Morris, CCIE4 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service Provider)
>> > #4713,
>> > > JNCIE
>> > > > > #153, CISSP, et al.
>> > > > > CCSI/JNCI-M/JNCI-J
>> > > > > VP - Technical Training - IPexpert, Inc.
>> > > > > IPexpert Sr. Technical Instructor
>> > > > >
>> > > > > A Cisco Learning Partner - We Accept Learning Credits!
>> > > > >
>> > > > > smorris@ipexpert.com
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Telephone: +1.810.326.1444
>> > > > > Fax: +1.810.454.0130
>> > > > > http://www.ipexpert.com
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > > > From: Jason Plank [mailto:Jason_Plank@condenast.com]
>> > > > > Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 5:33 PM
>> > > > > To: Scott Morris; 'Serdar Kut'; 'Narbik Kocharians'
>> > > > > Cc: 'Mike Kraus (mikraus)'; 'Eric Dobyns'; 'Digital Yemeni';
>> > > > > ccielab@groupstudy.com
>> > > > > Subject: Re: Rumor mill time - Cat 6500 on R&S lab exam?
>> > > > >
>> > > > > So you think it helps the value of the CCIE that it can produce a
>> > CCIE
>> > > > > that
>> > > > > knows NOTHING about a 6500? What is cisco's top product? What are
>> > you
>> > > > > considered if you are a CCIE. Doesn't mesh in my mind.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Totally disagree.
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > On 6/21/07 1:38 PM, "Scott Morris" <smorris@ipexpert.com> wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > >> Should it matter?
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> The CCIE tests your knowledge of technologies, not product.
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> The stuff you can do with a 6500 at a basic switching technology
>> > > level
>> > > > >> isn't really any different than the switches we currently
>> > have. If
>> > > we
>> > > > >> start taking service modules, that's different, but that's a
>> > whole
>> > > new
>> > > > >> technology base.
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> *shrug* HUGE expense difference not only for them to rollout,
>> > but
>> > > > >> foreveryone to study!
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> Scott Morris, CCIE4 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service Provider)
>> > #4713,
>> > > > >> JNCIE #153, CISSP, et al.
>> > > > >> CCSI/JNCI-M/JNCI-J
>> > > > >> VP - Technical Training - IPexpert, Inc.
>> > > > >> IPexpert Sr. Technical Instructor
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> A Cisco Learning Partner - We Accept Learning Credits!
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> smorris@ipexpert.com
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> Telephone: +1.810.326.1444
>> > > > >> Fax: +1.810.454.0130
>> > > > >> http://www.ipexpert.com
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> -----Original Message-----
>> > > > >> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On
>> > Behalf
>> > > > >> Of Serdar Kut
>> > > > >> Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 4:55 AM
>> > > > >> To: Narbik Kocharians
>> > > > >> Cc: Mike Kraus (mikraus); Eric Dobyns; Digital Yemeni;
>> > > > >> ccielab@groupstudy.com
>> > > > >> Subject: Re: Rumor mill time - Cat 6500 on R&S lab exam?
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> I actually agree with Narbik..It is a big shame not to be aware
>> > of
>> > > > >> 6500 and 4500 chasis and config tricks for a CCIE I think. And
>> > also,
>> > > > >> as a CCIE, most of time I deal with big chasis, not much with
>> > 3560s
>> > > or
>> > > > > less.
>> > > > >> It should be good I think
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> Serdar Kut
>> > > > >> CCIE#18130
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> On 6/20/07, Narbik Kocharians <narbikk@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > > >>>
>> > > > >>> Actually i hope they do that, because that would be the closest
>> > > thing
>> > > > >>> to the real world. No matter where you go these days, you see
>> > > > >>> at
>> > > > >>> least one 6500 series up and running. I think it would benefit
>> > the
>> > > > > program.
>> > > > >>> You may see a 3560 here and there, but you will definitely see
>> > > > >>> a
>> > lot
>> > > > >>> of firms having 6500 series. To be honest i typically see a
>> > mixture
>> > > > >>> of 4000/4500 and a 6500 in a collapsed core design.
>> > > > >>>
>> > > > >>>
>> > > > >>> On 6/19/07, Mike Kraus (mikraus) <mikraus@cisco.com> wrote:
>> > > > >>>>
>> > > > >>>> Not sure of the point of that in the R&S lab.... Really don't
>> > see
>> > > > >>>> them starting to test on the service modules on the 6500 in
>> > > > >>>> the
>> > > R&S.
>> > > > >>>> And, in many cases the 3560 has greater feature velocity. So,
>> > it
>> > > > >>>> would cost the CCIE program more money, a more rack space, but
>> > > > >>>> doesn't really give them many more test topics.
>> > > > >>>>
>> > > > >>>>
>> > > > >>>> -----Original Message-----
>> > > > >>>> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On
>> > > Behalf
>> > > > >>>> Of Eric Dobyns
>> > > > >>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 6:30 PM
>> > > > >>>> To: 'Digital Yemeni'; 'Narbik Kocharians'
>> > > > >>>> Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com
>> > > > >>>> Subject: RE: Rumor mill time - Cat 6500 on R&S lab exam?
>> > > > >>>>
>> > > > >>>> I believe you have a 3550 and 3 3650 all running L3, which
>> > > basically
>> > > > >>>> means you've got 13 routers to deal with.
>> > > > >>>>
>> > > > >>>> -----Original Message-----
>> > > > >>>> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com ] On
>> > > Behalf
>> > > > >>>> Of Digital Yemeni
>> > > > >>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 5:49 PM
>> > > > >>>> To: Narbik Kocharians
>> > > > >>>> Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com
>> > > > >>>> Subject: Re: Rumor mill time - Cat 6500 on R&S lab exam?
>> > > > >>>>
>> > > > >>>> nope nope! Cisco has recently faced some severe budget
>> > limitations
>> > > > >>>> and brought back the 2500s and L2 1900 switches!! :p
>> > > > >>>>
>> > > > >>>> Brad, since you're a Cisco Sponsored Organization, the
>> > confirmation
>> > > > >>>> (not the
>> > > > >>>> question!) should come from you isn't it? ;-)
>> > > > >>>>
>> > > > >>>>
>> > > > >>>> On 6/20/07, Narbik Kocharians < narbikk@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > > >>>>>
>> > > > >>>>> I heard 85xx and 12xxx
>> > > > >>>>>
>> > > > >>>>> On 6/19/07, Brad Ellis < brad@ccbootcamp.com> wrote:
>> > > > >>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>> Anyone else hear this?
>> > > > >>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>> thanks,
>> > > > >>>>>> Brad Ellis
>> > > > >>>>>> CCIE#5796 (R&S / Security)
>> > > > >>>>>> CCSI#30482
>> > > > >>>>>> Network Learning Inc - A Cisco Sponsored Organization (SO)
>> > YES!
>> > > > >>>>>> We take Cisco Learning credits!
>> > > > >>>>>> brad@ccbootcamp.com
>> > > > >>>>>> http://www.ccbootcamp.com (Cisco Training and Advanced
>> > Technology
>> > > > >>>>>> Rental
>> > > > >>>>>> Racks)
>> > > > >>>>>> Toll Free: 877-NLI-CCIE (877-654-2243) Outside USA:
>> > 702-968-5100
>> > > > >>>>>> FAX: 702-446-8012
>> > > > >>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>
>> > ________________________________________________________________
>> > > > >>>>>> ____ ___ Subscription information may be found at:
>> > > > >>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>> > > > >>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>
>> > > > >>>>> --
>> > > > >>>>> Narbik Kocharians
>> > > > >>>>> CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
>> > > > >>>>> CCSI# 30832
>> > > > >>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>
>> > __________________________________________________________________
>> > > > >>>>> ____ _ Subscription information may be found at:
>> > > > >>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>> > > > >>>>>
>> > > > >>>>
>> > > > >>>>
>> > > > >>>>
>> > > > >>>> --
>> > > > >>>> Best Regards!
>> > > > >>>> Digital, CCIE# to be assigned by Cisco when it collects enough
>> > $$
>> > > > >>>> out of me!
>> > > > >>>> :p
>> > > > >>>>
>> > > > >>>>
>> > > ____________________________________________________________________
>> > > > >>>> ___ Subscription information may be found at:
>> > > > >>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>> > > > >>>>
>> > > > >>>>
>> > > ____________________________________________________________________
>> > > > >>>> ___ Subscription information may be found at:
>> > > > >>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>> > > > >>>>
>> > > > >>>
>> > > > >>>
>> > > > >>>
>> > > > >>> --
>> > > > >>> Narbik Kocharians
>> > > > >>> CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
>> > > > >>> CCSI# 30832
>> > > > >>>
>> > > > >>>
>> > > _____________________________________________________________________
>> > > > >>> _ _ Subscription information may be found at:
>> > > > >>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >>
>> > > ______________________________________________________________________
>> >
>> > > > >> _ Subscription information may be found at:
>> > > > >> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >>
>> > > ______________________________________________________________________
>> > > > >> _ Subscription information may be found at:
>> > > > >> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>> > > > >
>> > > > > --
>> > > > > Jason Plank, CCIE# 16560
>> > > > > Senior Network Engineer
>> > > > > Conde Nast Publications
>> > > > > 1201 North Market St.
>> > > > > Wilmington, DE 19808
>> > > > > Email: Jason_Plank@CondeNast.com
>> > > > > Office: 302-830-4910
>> > > > > Cell: 302-290-0387
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > >
>> > _______________________________________________________________________
>> > > > > Subscription information may be found at:
>> > > > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > _______________________________________________________________________
>> > > > Subscription information may be found at:
>> > > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>> > >
>> > >
>> > _______________________________________________________________________
>> > > Subscription information may be found at:
>> > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________________________________
>> > Subscription information may be found at:
>> > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Narbik Kocharians
>> CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
>> CCSI# 30832
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Subscription information may be found at:
> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
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