From: Darby Weaver (darbyweaver@yahoo.com)
Date: Thu May 03 2007 - 09:42:22 ART
Points taken.
However, while not mandated by an employer to pass the
CCIE Lab within a certain timeline...
And noticing that end-users do not as far as I am
aware enjoy any discounts for having CCIE's on
staff...
I have noted that since I opted to re-take my CCIE
Written in December of 2004, and renew all of my
professional level certs, and actually seek and obtain
a full time position working as strictly a Cisco
Netwoking Engineer, that my employment prospects have
gone up and my actual paid salary has nearly doubled
in only about 2 years or so...
So...
I consider this a bit of a personal mandate to
continue on task, even if I do not pass the CCIE Lab
any time soon, the journey and the knowledge gained
are starting to see a significant ROI as far as I can
tell.
I had considered employement with Cisco before, but
after some consideration, it does seem to me that the
focus may be very narrow once employed by Cisco. My
perception may be clouded by the job opportunities I
have been presented with in the past be Cisco as
either an employee or as a contractor, but in nearly
every single case, it seemed "the job" whatever it was
had a limited scope. I understand why of course, and
it the same reason I very much appreciate the few
calls I have had to make to TAC and get a specialist
who knows my problem on the line, nearly every single
time - I think I only had one exception so far to
date.
I do not think I am as personally jealous of Cisco
employees, as much as I was concerned about trying to
score a lab date at the last minute and thinking some
may have a cavalier attitude about simply taking dates
and cancelling them at the last minute just because
they could and with little or no consequence.
Live and let live...
Later,
Darby
PS - I know everyone who goes down this road has
blisters and sunburn...
--- Lab Dude <ccielabdude@gmail.com> wrote:
> Darby,
>
> Thanks for the detailed response. Everyone is under
> similar time pressure
> and everyone has their committments and supposedly
> life outside work and
> CCIE studies, and people do spend significant amount
> of personal time and
> PTO to study for the same and make an investment in
> equipment to practice on
> and to go to Bootcamps if they get an opportunity
> to. Its a part of the
> deal. And being a Cisco employee doesnt exempt one
> from that.
>
> But the point that I was trying to make was that you
> are not required by
> your employer to have your CCIE, or are you? I
> assume you are pursuing CCIE
> because its your personal choice, correct? Your job
> is not at stake unless
> you get your CCIE by blah blah date, or is it?
>
> So think about it.. Who is under more pressure to
> get their CCIE? Someone
> who is doing it for their own personal
> satisfaction/career progress at their
> own pace, or someone who is required to have a CCIE
> by certain time to be
> able to continue with his job or to go to the next
> level?
>
> And if someone works for a certain employer (outside
> Cisco), they do get
> discount off some of their products/services etc in
> some way shape or form.
> So if Cisco is offering a perk to their regular
> employees by letting them go
> for three free initial attempts, I dont see anything
> wrong with that. I
> seriously doubt that it is *free*, as I am sure
> theres some internal
> cross-charging that would happen.
>
> And if you are jealous, you might want to apply for
> a job at Cisco. Assuming
> you manage to get in, you'll enjoy the same 3 free
> labs perk that a regular
> Cisco employee would. Alternatively, now that the
> economy has started to
> pick up, you might want to switch jobs and negotiate
> with the new employer
> to pay for your next 3 lab attempts. That way,
> you'll enjoy the same
> perk that a regular Cisco employee would. FYI,
> Contractors at Cisco are not
> eligible for this 3 free lab attempts perk, if it
> makes you feel any better.
>
> HTH
>
> On 5/3/07, Darby Weaver <darbyweaver@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Lab Dude,
> >
> > No pity here...
> >
> > Who has yet to see anyone with an unlimited budget
> to
> > go to the lab.
> >
> > Cisco Partners typically pay for 2 attempts and a
> pass
> > and usually don't cover training as well as some
> > others.
> >
> > Most employers pay for 1 or 2 classes per year.
> >
> > I may sound like I have an unlimited budget but
> this
> > is truly not the case, I have credit cards and a
> goal
> > and now basically a student loan of sorts to pay
> back
> > at a much higher interest rate - can you say
> > re-mortgage the house to consolidate it all?
> >
> > 1. 2005 - IE COD - A perk from a negotiation.
> >
> > 2. 2005 - IE Mock Labs - A tradeoff from being
> > cancelled at the last minute from going to
> Networkers.
> > Had to work and reschedule these as well.
> >
> > 3. 2006 - NMC-1 - Paid at my own expense 100% /
> > Vacation
> >
> > 4. 2006 - NMC-1 - Repeat - T&E initially paid at
> my
> > own expense - picked up later by employer. Time
> off
> > was granted by employer (initially was vacation).
> >
> > 5. 2006 - NMC-2 - Fully Employer Paid
> >
> > 6. 2006 - IE Mock Labs - Took Vacation to complete
> (6+
> > months later).
> >
> > 7. 2006 - Lab attempt 1 - Vacation and my expense
> 100%
> >
> > 8. 2006 - Lab attempt 2 - Vacation and my expense
> 100%
> >
> > 9. 2007 - H.U. Mock Labs - Took Vacation/Personal
> Days
> > and my expense 100%
> >
> > 10. Requested 1 Week of vacation to study prior to
> > upcoming lab - my vacation time.
> >
> > 11. 2007 - Lab Attempt 3 - my expense 100%
> (reimbursed
> > if I pass is the understanding) - time away is
> granted
> > by company - but may get counted against my bonus
> > formula.
> >
> > I have bought my own books, labs, workbooks, and
> > training equipment as well, which by the way are
> > heavily into the deep 10's of thousands if not
> over
> > the 100k mark over the past few years... Never
> mind
> > buying equipment that is obsolete or no longer
> > necessary over the years just building up to
> become a
> > serious candidate. (Now granted not every one has
> a
> > lab for 3-4 tracks outside of Scott Morris,
> myself,
> > and some few others...)
> >
> > Unlimited is the desire... the money comes from
> Peter
> > to pay Paul...
> >
> > Luckily, my job prospects have kept pace with my
> > desire and my expenditures.
> >
> > =================
> >
> > So tell me - where does anyone see unlimited???
> >
> > Every single class has a price. Nearly every day
> is a
> > day of vacation...
> >
> > And my friend...
> >
> > Please do not talk about over-worked... so some
> > employees do not get time to sleep...
> >
> > Many people here (non-Cisco employees) have to
> study
> > in-between exhaustive travel and some as much as
> > 75-100%, do not have company sponsored training
> > programs that are geared towards Networking...
> >
> > Dude, I sleep in between work and once in a while
> I
> > actually get concentrated study time --> See above
> > (the vacation dates)... In fact there are weeks
> at a
> > time, where I only get up to go to work, sleep a
> > couple of hours and am working again - just the
> way it
> > is sometimes - commitments to clients.
> >
> > I'm sure many others are in the same predicament
> and
> > some of the folks here have younger children or
> other
> > circumstances to be dealt with and overcome.
> Never
> > mind life in general or even the lawn.
> >
> > Everyone has their own demons.
> >
> >
> > Most companies, in fact, see this program as
> costly,
> > and a by-product or a necessary evil they have to
> pay
> > like a tax to keep skilled workers employed and
> > in-house as opposed to even more costly
> contractors or
> > even costly Smartnet contracts for that matter
> (they
> > are viewed as such - heard it with my own ears and
> > more than once).
> >
> > ===========================
> >
> > So yes, we are all a little jealous of the
> perks...
> >
> > But hey, we would all love to have those perks -
> so
> > who is counting.
> >
> > And yes my friend, I do recall when for "several
> > years", I did not even consider making the
> sacrifice
> > for even a trip to the lab solely due to the
> expense
> > involved. The cost just did not seem feasible and
> > justifiable, despite the obvious benefits. It was
> > cheaper to work on other more obtainable
> qualfications
> > that come in bite-sized chunks.
> >
> > Nice to have a lot of gear, a library, and
> equipment
> > to simulate mostly anything but never quite enough
> to
> > meet current lab standards it seemed. Only in the
> > past 2 years for myself has this issue been
> corrected.
> >
> > Many are in the same boat today.
> >
> >
> > Many people on the list see the "3" lab attempts
> as an
> > unlimited chance to pass... or close enough.
> >
> > And pressure... try being a Cisco Gold Partner or
> > Silver trying to get Gold status... these guys
> are
> > stressed. Anyone remember me mentioning a
> blood-eyed
> > classmate... I think Silver was the goal for his
> > company.
> >
> > Too much information...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- Jason Carpenter <adventureracing@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Dunno sounds like 3 free lunches :) May have to
> work
> > > just as hard to
> > > get there but the cost is a major factor for us
> > > mortals :) 3750
> > > dollars per CCIE so if you go for all 4 thats a
> > > hellofa perk. So sorry
> > > if I dont have much sympathy, cisco isnt the
> only
> > > compay that works ya
> > > hard.
> > >
> > > On 5/3/07, Lab Dude <ccielabdude@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > > The only advatnage that Cisco employees have
> is
> > > the privilege of 3 *free*
> > > > attempts, which I think makes sense as a perk
> of
> > > working for Cisco. We
> > > > suffer the same as the rest of the bunch when
> it
> > > comes to struggling with
> > > > the lab, and we *do not* have any insider
> > > information.
> > > >
> > > > For any further attempts (i.e.4 and on-wards),
> > > Cisco employees not only have
> > > > to pay for the lab out of their own pocket,
> but
> > > also for any expenses
> > > > associated with it (airfare, hotel etc). In
> fact,
> > > for some roles at Cisco,
> > > > it is mandatory to have a CCIE, unlike for
> others
> > > pursuing it where it is a
> > > > 'nice to have' thing, hence it puts more
> pressure
> > > on some Cisco
> > > > employees preparing for CCIE.
> > > >
> > > > Hardest thing as a Cisco employee is the
> ability
> > > to find time to study for
> > > > CCIE, taking into account the work load, time
> > > pressure and long hours,
> > > > unlike at many other employers where people
> get
> > > time off to study for CCIE,
> > > > or have unlimited training budget :)
> > > >
> > > > Concluding, theres no such thing as a free
> lunch!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 5/3/07, Loc Pham <ccie17030@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Let look at another angle ,
> > > > > How about a proctor have booked 1 day
> vacation
> > > and
> > > > > cancel it in the last week ??
> > > > > After all, we are all human ... I hope ;-)
> > > > > lP.
> > > > > --- Darby Weaver <darbyweaver@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Bill,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I did not mean to imply that they
> necessarily
> > > have
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > any easier.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Remember - No conspiracy theory.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > But it does seem that invariably some
> people
> > > can
> > > > > > jump
> > > > > > ship within 30 days...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And 4 at a time could be a coincidence...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Perhaps I am mistaken.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'd just like to think if a rule applies
> to
> > > one of
> > > > > > us,
> > > > > > it might apply to all of us.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If I cancel my seat, I not only forfeit my
> > > money,
> > > > > > but
> > > > > > being a no-show, I would have to wait 6
> months
> > > to
> > > > > > get
> > > > > > a new date. Or at least this is what it
> says.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have not yet had a reason or a concern
> about
> > > being
> > > > > >
> > > > > > a no-show yet, but it could happen to any
> of
> > > us.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I would just find it hard to think it
> would
> > > happen
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > a lot of us and at one time.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I could be wrong.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm just another hopeful...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > :)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- jslauer@hotmail.com wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > agreed,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > other than getting 3 free takes of the
> exam
> > > I can
> > > > > > > second this. I have a
> > > > > > > bunch of NCE friends that say the same
> > > things.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Josh Lauer
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > CCIE #16024
> > > > > > > CCNA,CCDP,CCIP,CCSP,CCDP,RHCE,MCSE,CEH
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > From: "Bill Mckenzie"
> > > <bmckenzie@hotmail.com>
> > > > > > > To: <darbyweaver@yahoo.com>;
> > > <ggombas@gmail.com>;
> > > > > > > <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 8:44 PM
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: Isn't it too late cancel?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Darby,
> > > > > > > > Do you think Cisco employees studying
> for
> > > the
> > > > > > CCIE
> > > > > > > have some secret
> > > > > > > > advantage to achieving it over
> > > > > > > > anyone else? If so, I believe you are
> > > mistaken.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Bill Mckenzie, CCIE#16725, CCVP
> > > > > > > > Systems Engineer
> > > > > > > > Cisco Systems, Inc.
> > > > > > > > Phone: 614-425-2370
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >>From: Darby Weaver
> <darbyweaver@yahoo.com>
> > > > > > > >>Reply-To: Darby Weaver
> > > <darbyweaver@yahoo.com>
> > > > > > > >>To: Gregory Gombas
> <ggombas@gmail.com>,
> > > > > > > Cisco certification
> > > > > > > >><ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> > > > > > > >>Subject: Re: Isn't it too late cancel?
> > > > > > > >>Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 16:45:32 -0700
> (PDT)
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> > > 23:45:47.0461
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> > > > > > > >>FILETIME=[01EE5F50:01C78D14]
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>Damned Cisco Employees...
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>No suffering for losing a "FREE"
> seat...
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>I wonder if they get penalized by
> having
> > > to wait
> > > > > > > for 6
> > > > > > > >>months like the rest of would...
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>Hmmm....
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>They just re-register...
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>Take it as a warning sign...
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>Last minute droppers know something we
> > > don't...
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>:) :) :)
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>But no conspiracy theory here...
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>--- Gregory Gombas <ggombas@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> > Just saw 4 seats open in San Jose
> in
> > > May -
> > > > > > > isn't it
> > > > > > > >> > too late to cancel?
> > > > > > > >> > How is that possible?
> > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > >
> > > > > === message truncated ===
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> __________________________________________________
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This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.4 : Fri Jun 01 2007 - 06:55:20 ART