From: Lab Dude (ccielabdude@gmail.com)
Date: Thu May 03 2007 - 09:26:27 ART
Darby,
Thanks for the detailed response. Everyone is under similar time pressure
and everyone has their committments and supposedly life outside work and
CCIE studies, and people do spend significant amount of personal time and
PTO to study for the same and make an investment in equipment to practice on
and to go to Bootcamps if they get an opportunity to. Its a part of the
deal. And being a Cisco employee doesnt exempt one from that.
But the point that I was trying to make was that you are not required by
your employer to have your CCIE, or are you? I assume you are pursuing CCIE
because its your personal choice, correct? Your job is not at stake unless
you get your CCIE by blah blah date, or is it?
So think about it.. Who is under more pressure to get their CCIE? Someone
who is doing it for their own personal satisfaction/career progress at their
own pace, or someone who is required to have a CCIE by certain time to be
able to continue with his job or to go to the next level?
And if someone works for a certain employer (outside Cisco), they do get
discount off some of their products/services etc in some way shape or form.
So if Cisco is offering a perk to their regular employees by letting them go
for three free initial attempts, I dont see anything wrong with that. I
seriously doubt that it is *free*, as I am sure theres some internal
cross-charging that would happen.
And if you are jealous, you might want to apply for a job at Cisco. Assuming
you manage to get in, you'll enjoy the same 3 free labs perk that a regular
Cisco employee would. Alternatively, now that the economy has started to
pick up, you might want to switch jobs and negotiate with the new employer
to pay for your next 3 lab attempts. That way, you'll enjoy the same
perk that a regular Cisco employee would. FYI, Contractors at Cisco are not
eligible for this 3 free lab attempts perk, if it makes you feel any better.
HTH
On 5/3/07, Darby Weaver <darbyweaver@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Lab Dude,
>
> No pity here...
>
> Who has yet to see anyone with an unlimited budget to
> go to the lab.
>
> Cisco Partners typically pay for 2 attempts and a pass
> and usually don't cover training as well as some
> others.
>
> Most employers pay for 1 or 2 classes per year.
>
> I may sound like I have an unlimited budget but this
> is truly not the case, I have credit cards and a goal
> and now basically a student loan of sorts to pay back
> at a much higher interest rate - can you say
> re-mortgage the house to consolidate it all?
>
> 1. 2005 - IE COD - A perk from a negotiation.
>
> 2. 2005 - IE Mock Labs - A tradeoff from being
> cancelled at the last minute from going to Networkers.
> Had to work and reschedule these as well.
>
> 3. 2006 - NMC-1 - Paid at my own expense 100% /
> Vacation
>
> 4. 2006 - NMC-1 - Repeat - T&E initially paid at my
> own expense - picked up later by employer. Time off
> was granted by employer (initially was vacation).
>
> 5. 2006 - NMC-2 - Fully Employer Paid
>
> 6. 2006 - IE Mock Labs - Took Vacation to complete (6+
> months later).
>
> 7. 2006 - Lab attempt 1 - Vacation and my expense 100%
>
> 8. 2006 - Lab attempt 2 - Vacation and my expense 100%
>
> 9. 2007 - H.U. Mock Labs - Took Vacation/Personal Days
> and my expense 100%
>
> 10. Requested 1 Week of vacation to study prior to
> upcoming lab - my vacation time.
>
> 11. 2007 - Lab Attempt 3 - my expense 100% (reimbursed
> if I pass is the understanding) - time away is granted
> by company - but may get counted against my bonus
> formula.
>
> I have bought my own books, labs, workbooks, and
> training equipment as well, which by the way are
> heavily into the deep 10's of thousands if not over
> the 100k mark over the past few years... Never mind
> buying equipment that is obsolete or no longer
> necessary over the years just building up to become a
> serious candidate. (Now granted not every one has a
> lab for 3-4 tracks outside of Scott Morris, myself,
> and some few others...)
>
> Unlimited is the desire... the money comes from Peter
> to pay Paul...
>
> Luckily, my job prospects have kept pace with my
> desire and my expenditures.
>
> =================
>
> So tell me - where does anyone see unlimited???
>
> Every single class has a price. Nearly every day is a
> day of vacation...
>
> And my friend...
>
> Please do not talk about over-worked... so some
> employees do not get time to sleep...
>
> Many people here (non-Cisco employees) have to study
> in-between exhaustive travel and some as much as
> 75-100%, do not have company sponsored training
> programs that are geared towards Networking...
>
> Dude, I sleep in between work and once in a while I
> actually get concentrated study time --> See above
> (the vacation dates)... In fact there are weeks at a
> time, where I only get up to go to work, sleep a
> couple of hours and am working again - just the way it
> is sometimes - commitments to clients.
>
> I'm sure many others are in the same predicament and
> some of the folks here have younger children or other
> circumstances to be dealt with and overcome. Never
> mind life in general or even the lawn.
>
> Everyone has their own demons.
>
>
> Most companies, in fact, see this program as costly,
> and a by-product or a necessary evil they have to pay
> like a tax to keep skilled workers employed and
> in-house as opposed to even more costly contractors or
> even costly Smartnet contracts for that matter (they
> are viewed as such - heard it with my own ears and
> more than once).
>
> ===========================
>
> So yes, we are all a little jealous of the perks...
>
> But hey, we would all love to have those perks - so
> who is counting.
>
> And yes my friend, I do recall when for "several
> years", I did not even consider making the sacrifice
> for even a trip to the lab solely due to the expense
> involved. The cost just did not seem feasible and
> justifiable, despite the obvious benefits. It was
> cheaper to work on other more obtainable qualfications
> that come in bite-sized chunks.
>
> Nice to have a lot of gear, a library, and equipment
> to simulate mostly anything but never quite enough to
> meet current lab standards it seemed. Only in the
> past 2 years for myself has this issue been corrected.
>
> Many are in the same boat today.
>
>
> Many people on the list see the "3" lab attempts as an
> unlimited chance to pass... or close enough.
>
> And pressure... try being a Cisco Gold Partner or
> Silver trying to get Gold status... these guys are
> stressed. Anyone remember me mentioning a blood-eyed
> classmate... I think Silver was the goal for his
> company.
>
> Too much information...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- Jason Carpenter <adventureracing@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Dunno sounds like 3 free lunches :) May have to work
> > just as hard to
> > get there but the cost is a major factor for us
> > mortals :) 3750
> > dollars per CCIE so if you go for all 4 thats a
> > hellofa perk. So sorry
> > if I dont have much sympathy, cisco isnt the only
> > compay that works ya
> > hard.
> >
> > On 5/3/07, Lab Dude <ccielabdude@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > The only advatnage that Cisco employees have is
> > the privilege of 3 *free*
> > > attempts, which I think makes sense as a perk of
> > working for Cisco. We
> > > suffer the same as the rest of the bunch when it
> > comes to struggling with
> > > the lab, and we *do not* have any insider
> > information.
> > >
> > > For any further attempts (i.e.4 and on-wards),
> > Cisco employees not only have
> > > to pay for the lab out of their own pocket, but
> > also for any expenses
> > > associated with it (airfare, hotel etc). In fact,
> > for some roles at Cisco,
> > > it is mandatory to have a CCIE, unlike for others
> > pursuing it where it is a
> > > 'nice to have' thing, hence it puts more pressure
> > on some Cisco
> > > employees preparing for CCIE.
> > >
> > > Hardest thing as a Cisco employee is the ability
> > to find time to study for
> > > CCIE, taking into account the work load, time
> > pressure and long hours,
> > > unlike at many other employers where people get
> > time off to study for CCIE,
> > > or have unlimited training budget :)
> > >
> > > Concluding, theres no such thing as a free lunch!
> > >
> > >
> > > On 5/3/07, Loc Pham <ccie17030@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Let look at another angle ,
> > > > How about a proctor have booked 1 day vacation
> > and
> > > > cancel it in the last week ??
> > > > After all, we are all human ... I hope ;-)
> > > > lP.
> > > > --- Darby Weaver <darbyweaver@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Bill,
> > > > >
> > > > > I did not mean to imply that they necessarily
> > have
> > > > > it
> > > > > any easier.
> > > > >
> > > > > Remember - No conspiracy theory.
> > > > >
> > > > > But it does seem that invariably some people
> > can
> > > > > jump
> > > > > ship within 30 days...
> > > > >
> > > > > And 4 at a time could be a coincidence...
> > > > >
> > > > > Perhaps I am mistaken.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'd just like to think if a rule applies to
> > one of
> > > > > us,
> > > > > it might apply to all of us.
> > > > >
> > > > > If I cancel my seat, I not only forfeit my
> > money,
> > > > > but
> > > > > being a no-show, I would have to wait 6 months
> > to
> > > > > get
> > > > > a new date. Or at least this is what it says.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have not yet had a reason or a concern about
> > being
> > > > >
> > > > > a no-show yet, but it could happen to any of
> > us.
> > > > >
> > > > > I would just find it hard to think it would
> > happen
> > > > > to
> > > > > a lot of us and at one time.
> > > > >
> > > > > I could be wrong.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm just another hopeful...
> > > > >
> > > > > :)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- jslauer@hotmail.com wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > agreed,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > other than getting 3 free takes of the exam
> > I can
> > > > > > second this. I have a
> > > > > > bunch of NCE friends that say the same
> > things.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Josh Lauer
> > > > > >
> > > > > > CCIE #16024
> > > > > > CCNA,CCDP,CCIP,CCSP,CCDP,RHCE,MCSE,CEH
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: "Bill Mckenzie"
> > <bmckenzie@hotmail.com>
> > > > > > To: <darbyweaver@yahoo.com>;
> > <ggombas@gmail.com>;
> > > > > > <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 8:44 PM
> > > > > > Subject: Re: Isn't it too late cancel?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Darby,
> > > > > > > Do you think Cisco employees studying for
> > the
> > > > > CCIE
> > > > > > have some secret
> > > > > > > advantage to achieving it over
> > > > > > > anyone else? If so, I believe you are
> > mistaken.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bill Mckenzie, CCIE#16725, CCVP
> > > > > > > Systems Engineer
> > > > > > > Cisco Systems, Inc.
> > > > > > > Phone: 614-425-2370
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >>From: Darby Weaver <darbyweaver@yahoo.com>
> > > > > > >>Reply-To: Darby Weaver
> > <darbyweaver@yahoo.com>
> > > > > > >>To: Gregory Gombas <ggombas@gmail.com>,
> > > > > > Cisco certification
> > > > > > >><ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> > > > > > >>Subject: Re: Isn't it too late cancel?
> > > > > > >>Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 16:45:32 -0700 (PDT)
> > > > > > >>MIME-Version: 1.0
> > > > > > >>Received: from lists.groupstudy.com
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> > > > > > >>FILETIME=[01EE5F50:01C78D14]
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>Damned Cisco Employees...
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>No suffering for losing a "FREE" seat...
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>I wonder if they get penalized by having
> > to wait
> > > > > > for 6
> > > > > > >>months like the rest of would...
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>Hmmm....
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>They just re-register...
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>Take it as a warning sign...
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>Last minute droppers know something we
> > don't...
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>:) :) :)
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>But no conspiracy theory here...
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>--- Gregory Gombas <ggombas@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> > Just saw 4 seats open in San Jose in
> > May -
> > > > > > isn't it
> > > > > > >> > too late to cancel?
> > > > > > >> > How is that possible?
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > >
> > > > === message truncated ===
> > > >
> > > >
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