From: Sean.Zimmerman@clubcorp.com
Date: Tue Apr 17 2007 - 19:29:10 ART
Will everyone please just retract their fangs! I had no intention of
causing a controversy.
First and foremost, I have nothing but the highest regard for IPExpert's
products and instructors, especially Scott Morris. Technically, if I
would've taken the lab strategies related to time management to heart, I
would've passed on my 2nd attempt. I will not hesitate for a second to
recommend IPExperts R&S products.
I've become accustomed to the IPExpert workbook, and like I said, I can
work through most of the labs very quickly. I've become accustomed to the
workbook and to the IPExpert topology. I just need to change perspective
just a little and work outside of my comfort zone. In hindsight, I should
of purchased the IPExpert proctor guide. So now, instead of purchasing the
IPExpert proctor guide, which at this point will only be marginally useful
since I've mastered most of the labs, I'm considering a different vendor's
workbook. I'm not considering this because I think IPExpert is
sub-standard. I'm just trying to spread my exposure as far as possible
while incurring the least cost.
Thanks,
Sean
<Eric.Stuhl@ferguson.com>
04/17/2007 09:11 AM
To
<darbyweaver@yahoo.com>, <smorris@ipexpert.com>,
<Sean.Zimmerman@clubcorp.com>, <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
cc
Subject
RE: Close but no Cigar (You Asked - the Vendor Bakeoff)
Darby,
The day you get the CCIE is the day the program has completely
failed. I'd take a minute and reread the quote by Colin Powell that you
attached to one of your earlier emails. You've mastered the art of
looking for the quick fix and you have an amazing vocabulary of
technical buzzwords and a rather voluminous repository of training
manifestos and catch phrases. Unfortunately, I have yet to see any true
understanding of what you have learned. I sat next to you in one
vendor's class for 5 days and heard you give lip service to all the
techniques that were espoused, but when it came time to actually sit
down and immerse yourself in the technology you seem to lack the desire
or ability to continue to that next step.
It shouldn't be an eye opening experience to learn that in order to
pass the CCIE lab, one must be careful and one must truly understand
theory and practice of technology. You've been on this path for years,
if you're just now learning one of the first steps, I can only imagine
how much longer it will take you to implement that knowledge.
To the vendors that you support with your infatiguable training
budget, I apologize for "tapping on the glass". As a poker player, I
would typically never alert a fish to the fact that he's a fish, but the
increased level of complete and utter garbage that has been spewed into
groupstudy has made it difficult for me to even sift through the
remaining email to find anything of value.
Eric Stuhl
CCIE 16349
Senior Network Engineer
Wolseley North American Division * 12500 Jefferson Avenue * Newport News
* VA * 23602-4314
T: +1 (757) 969 4146 * F: +1 (757) 989 2505
www.wolseley.com
Wolseley plc registered office Parkview 1220 Arlington Business Park
Theale Nr Reading RG7 4GA United Kingdom
Registration No. 29846 England
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
Darby Weaver
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 9:23 AM
To: smorris@ipexpert.com; Sean.Zimmerman@clubcorp.com;
ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: RE: Close but no Cigar (You Asked - the Vendor Bakeoff)
But these are not statistics or percentages.
These are actual people who bought or attended training and actually
passed.
It is also what some vendors use for marketing purposes.
Don't worry - I'll be a CCIE before too long and may be up for hire...
--- Scott Morris <smorris@ipexpert.com> wrote:
> So in other words this is study with a margin of error in the +/-
> 3000% range then.
>
> Statistics are always interesting creatures, but ones that should be
> put in proper cages.
>
> :)
>
>
> Scott Morris, CCIE4 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service
> Provider) #4713, JNCIE
> #153, CISSP, et al.
> CCSI/JNCI-M/JNCI-J
> IPexpert VP - Curriculum Development
> IPexpert Sr. Technical Instructor
> smorris@ipexpert.com
> http://www.ipexpert.com
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com
> [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of Darby Weaver
> Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 9:03 AM
> To: Sean.Zimmerman@clubcorp.com;
> ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: Re: Close but no Cigar (You Asked - the Vendor Bakeoff)
>
> Sean,
>
> Here's some "digits" for you just pulled from each vendor's website:
>
> To be fair - I started with late February to start the numbers from -
> recall some vendors have 10 years and some have less years.
>
>
> ====================================================
>
> Now I picked on Nick Griffin and used his number since he passed in
> Late February as a baseline to grab these numbers - and since he is on
> the roster of more than a couple of vendors. (No offense Nick)
>
> The truth is - it is hard to tell who made the difference with each
> candidate since many use a lot of materials from different vendors and
> each vendor claims each CCIE who purchased their materials.
>
> Now each vendor may also have other CCIE's who did not "call in" their
> number as well so it could be listed - I cannot account for that since
> it is not listed.
>
> Some vendors sell their products cheaply and thus have a higher market
> share as well and this is not reflected - think ratio.
>
> Some trainers/vendors do not list or it is hard to find their current
> CCIE's (like IEMentor) - sorry.
>
> Some trainers cannot post ther students or don't post their students
> (say like Paul Borghese for instance who can probably claim a lot if
> the GS list itself counts at all).
>
> Lots of things to consider.
>
> It also does not consider how much help a candidate may have recived
> from others or vendors on GS, some vendors and their employees do
> quite a bit on GS to answer lingering questions and sometimes very
> critical specific questions and scenarios.
>
> I can say that you need to read my posts and look at this list from
> the past
> 2 months or so and draw your own conclusions - some said I was biased
> - the numbers are what they are.
>
> Remember there is no accounting for ratio, but if ratio were important
> to you, you would be well-advised to look twice or even three times if
> you missed a very simple fact.
>
> So when you see class-only or one-on-one it is hard but there classes
> and tutelege are sparse and they rarely have large classes to draw
> success stories from.
>
> If three go in and three come out CCIE's, what can I tell you.
>
> And there's a training center in China called www.ccxx.net with
> several month programs of study that simply builds CCIE's eventually.
>
> Oh yes - I did not count anyone I (or others) may have worked with -
> wink wink... You know who you are. :)
>
> No accounting for personal study friends or study-groups either.
>
> ==============================================
>
> 1. IE - 21 CCIE's (Assumes RS) WB/Class/COD/More
>
> 2. NMC - 12 CCIE's (Assumes RS) WB/Class/Some COD/Book
>
> 3. HU - 10 CCIE's (Assumes RS) (No Workbook Just
> In-Class)
>
> 4. NLI / CCBOOTCAMP - 5 RS / 3 Voice (Hot for
> Voice)WB/Class/Mini-WorkBooks/More
>
> 5. IPEXPERT - 3 RS and 1 Voice WB/Class/COD/More
>
> 6. CyscoExpert - 3 RS (One-on-One Training)
>
>
> =============================================
>
> IE: 21 (some are listed with other vendors)
>
> #17746 Joselito Nunez
> #17623 Craig Middlebrooks
> #17613 Jerald Hulbert
> #17610 Antonio Martin
> #17590 Mark Rushby
> #17582 Mandebis Ably
> #17561 Luqman Kondeth
> #17559 Ram Patla
> #17518 Andre Serrao
> #17516 Clifton Folkerts
> #17474 Kemal Haydar
> #17471 Colm O'Leary
> #17457 Robert Watson
> #17447 Vlaho Jemin
> #17439 Michael Marran
> #17409 Jim White
> #17403 Vladimir Starovatov
> #17401 Jeff Stevenson
> #17390 Abhi Gupta
> #17389 Luke Lambert
> #17381 Nick Griffin
>
>
> NMC: 12 RS
>
> Joselito Nunez CCIE# 17746
> Craig Middlebrooks CCIE# 17623
> Jerald Hulbert CCIE# 17613
> Mandebis Ably CCIE# 17582
> Luqman Kondeth CCIE# 17561
> Andre Serrao CCIE# 17518
> Terry Smith CCIE# 17499
> Aaron Aday CCIE# 17475
> Prio Utomo CCIE# 17431
> Peter Mesjar CCIE# 17428
> Marcel Roy CCIE# 17418
> Nick Griffin CCIE# 17381
>
>
> IPExpert: 3 RS and 1 Voice
>
> Andre Serrao CCIE #17518 (R&S)
> Peter Mesjar CCIE #17428 (R&S)
> Alejandro Alejo CCIE #17391 (Voice)
> Nick Griffin CCIE #17381 (R&S)
>
>
> CCBOOTCAMP: 5 RS / 3 Voice
>
> Luqman Kondeth 17561 (R&S)
> Sebastian Pasternacki 17541 (R&S)
> Robert Hugo 17494 (Voice)
> Robert Watson 17457 (R&S)
> Jim White 17409 (R&S)
> Alejandro Alejo 17391 (Voice)
> Nick Griffin 17381 (R&S)
>
>
> HU: (Note no workbooks - only classes and some with only 1 or 2
> students) 10
>
> 17409, 17470, 17517, 17540, 17612, 17637, 17651, 17652, 17711, 17746
>
> CyscoExpert: 3 RS? (One-on-One Training)
>
> Terry Smith, CCIE #17499
> Clifton Folkerts, CCIE #17516
> Wageh Eid, CCIE #17569
>
> --- Sean.Zimmerman@clubcorp.com wrote:
>
> > Just found out at 1:00 AM this morning that I
> failed my third attempt
> > at San Jose. I'm tempted to submit for a reread,
> but I'm a little
> > discouraged by that 0.5% statistic. Yesterday's
> lab seemed easy, I
> > only had to skip 5 points worth of sections and I
> finished about an
> > hour early. I really thought that I'd nailed it. I
> wasn't certain
> > about a
> > 2 point category, but
> > it turned out that I got it based on my score
> report, so based off my
> > point tracking, I should've scored with a 95%.
> Less than 80% seemed
> > impossible.
> >
> > I'm thinking about trying a different workbook.
> I'm using IPExpert V9
> > right now, and I don't have the proctor guide.
> I've been flying
> > through (most of) those labs, and my configs match
> the final configs.
> > Nothing against IPExpert, but I think it would be
> good to change the
> > scene just a little. I attended an IPExpert
> bootcamp with the infamous
> > and extremely knowledgeable Scott Morris back in
> November, and I've
> > heard that you're supposed to use a different
> Vendor's workbook than
> > the one providing the bootcamp. I'm considering IE
> or NM, anyone have
> > any recommendations? I'm strongly considering IE
> because it includes
> > the solutions/proctor guide and they seem to be
> listing a lot of
> > CCIE's right now.
> >
> >
>
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