From: Darby Weaver (darbyweaver@yahoo.com)
Date: Mon Apr 16 2007 - 15:36:28 ART
ok 40 hours - it's the red in my eyes - ooops...
--- Scott Morris <swm@emanon.com> wrote:
> "40 years of CCIE training per year"??? :) Sounds
> like you've been
> working too hard!
>
> It may seem like years, but only days go by! (grin)
>
> Every year or so, we always have similar
> discussions... We're still here
> though!
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com
> [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> Darby Weaver
> Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 8:54 AM
> To: Lab Dude
> Cc: Dan C; Usman Ali; Anthony Bonilla; CCIEwnaB;
> ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: Re: Why not to use the "real ccie lab"
> folks
>
> Why unfair to those who passed before and why are
> they wimps?
>
> They had to take the lab of their day and it was a
> challenge.
>
> The community as a whole has grown by leaps and
> bounds since the first CCIE
> till today.
>
> I can assure you the CCIE's who took the lab 10
> years ago had their work cut
> out for them then as we do now.
>
> We have more resources to study, but the lab has
> gotten more interesting.
>
> They had no such resources at the time and if you
> look at lab materials from
> the past decade you might think some things
> simplistic until you try to deal
> with things like AppleTalk, Novell, and Vines among
> other protocols and the
> joys they brought to the table.
>
> Nope each generation has challenges.
>
> If the lab goes to 2 day again, 3 day or even 5 day
> there will be those of
> us who will pay the price to achieve the
> certfication no matter what.
>
> So why even argue the point.
>
> Let the 5-day labs begin now.
>
> Cisco was considerate of the candidates then and
> will be in the future, and
> you wonder why the proctors no longer take the time
> to discuss scores with
> candidates... It was getting spooky to them and
> they were getting fearful
> of the emotionally distraught folks.
>
> The lab is tense and always will be 1 day or more.
>
> But hey and interview and an oral review are not
> unheard of, nor is getting
> a peer or a manager or the like to certify that a
> candidate has x years of
> experience.
>
> Would it really hurt to do these things? And what
> about continuing
> education credit of some sort.
>
> Networkers used to be a nice requirement and it went
> away. Personally it or
> an alternative such as attending at least 40 years
> of CCIE level training
> per year would be a minimum in my book.
>
> Guess there would be a lot CCIE's hating me and more
> loving me if I ever got
> the job.
>
> Value would be secured for sure and no one would
> fear being called a paper
> tiger or even a lab rat.
>
> If you got it you earned it, and if you got it, you
> continue to earn it.
>
> Not much to ask from the most respected cert in the
> industry.
>
> Why not set the standard?
>
> It's called survival, when only the strong can
> survive.
>
>
> --- Lab Dude <ccielabdude@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Whats next? Rename of CCIE to PhD certification?
> > Pre-requisite being
> > enrolling at a Cisco Academy for 5 years before
> pursuing the
> > certification?
> > If I recall correctly, there are no lab slots
> available in the near
> > future due to 'high-demand'. Do you really think
> Cisco has enough
> > resources to allocate for a certification?
> >
> > Give me a break. This is just a certification that
> needs renewing
> > every 2 years. This is NOT a PhD dissertation. At
> least once you get
> > the PhD degree you hold it for life, not with a 2
> years renewal
> > condition.
> >
> > If Cisco was to ever adhere to the rumor, it would
> be extremely unfair
> > to those planning to pursue in the future as many
> wimps have already
> > passed before ;-)
> >
> > On 4/16/07, Darby Weaver <darbyweaver@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Dan,
> > >
> > > You know there is a rumor of a new program
> manager
> > to
> > > replace Maurilio and that program manager wants
> I multiday program
> > > (I think 5-day) and that it would involve just
> such an interview
> > > process on day one before a candidate would ever
> even be allowed to
> > see a
> > > rack of gear. Then the candidate would have to
> complete each of
> > > several tracks to include all of
> > the
> > > older technologies and the newer ones as well.
> > >
> > > Just a rumor but my own ears did hear it.
> > >
> > > I guess it would be a true Enterprise-Class CCIE
> > and
> > > wimps need not apply.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- Dan C <cdan2154@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi all,
> > > >
> > > > I like the idea Usman put forward by the time
> > those
> > > > guys attempt to memorise
> > > > 100 labs they will be CCIE's ready without
> > knowing
> > > > :) Maybe another way to
> > > > move forward is for Cisco to have a live
> > interview
> > > > before the day of the
> > > > exam, where you may need to answer few basic
> questions and prove
> > > > that you have the experience needed to move to
> the next level...
> > > > who knows....
> > > > my2cents, Dan
> > > >
> > > > On 4/17/07, Usman Ali <usman198@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hello all Gurus ,
> > > > > I think it is very desperate for the people
> > who
> > > > are doing CCIE by studying
> > > > > .
> > > > > i am working on ccie from last 1 year and
> quit
> > job
> > > > only for study and my
> > > > > target to pass CCIE in three attempts , if i
> pass end of this
> > > > > year what will be the
> > market
> > > > of ccie after 3 years
> > > > > when there would be more than 50000 CCIE and
> a
> > few
> > > > thousands with good
> > > > > knowledge ,
> > > > > it is very disappointing position is it
> better to go with IBM
> > > > > certification to
> > earn
> > > > IBM cert you need just
> > > > > a few configurations and once a redbook
> study
> > of
> > > > the technology , i
> > > > > passed IBM SAN solution desinger examine 3
> > years
> > > > before and it is more
> > > > > easy than even CCNA and have a good market
> > value
> > > > too .
> > > > > can cisco make a huge data base of some 100
> > labs
> > > > you will get one in
> > > > > examine or something like this to avoid the
> > fraud
> > > > .
> > > > >
> > > > > bye
> > > > >
> > > > > Usman Ali
> > > > >
> > > > > Anthony Bonilla wrote:
> > > > > > On the same note, one of the proctors in
> RTP
> > was
> > > > mentioning that they
> > > > > know
> > > > > > that lab exams are leaking out being that
> > > > whenever Cisco releases a new
> > > > > > exam, the passing rate is real low but
> after
> > two
> > > > weeks or so, the
> > > > > passing
> > > > > > rate shoots up to 90% - go figure!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > When everyone in the room asked why Cisco
> > does
> > > > not do anything about it,
> > > > > he
> > > > > > replied that they can't do anything there
> > > > because China has no NDA or
> > > > > > something to that affect. Or better yet,
> > Cisco
> > > > should offering this
> > > > > exam in
> > > > > > those countries to begin with but if this
> > > > continues to go on and Cisco
> > > > > does
> > > > > > not do anything knowing all this is
> > happening,
> > > > you always wonder if they
> > > > > > themselves are involved as well???
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Just my 2 cents.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 4/15/07, Darby Weaver
> > <darbyweaver@yahoo.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> What everyone on this list in a position
> to
> > > > hire
> > > > > >> should do, could do, and ought to do with
> > every
> > > > single
> > > > > >> job candidate, CCIE notwithstanding, is
> set
> > > > them down
> > > > > >> in front of some gear and let them show
> you
> > how
> > > > and
> > > > > >> why they are the person for the job...
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> 2-3 hours in front of gear and you know
> > whether
> > > > you
> > > > > >> have a keeper or... NOT.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Lots of people are passing the lab these
> > past
> > > > few
> > > > > >> years...
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Not all of them are quite qualified to
> work
> > on
> > > > a
> > > > > >> full-fledged network with "issues". I'm
> > sure
> > > > most of
> > > > > >> have worked hard and some for some years,
> > but a
> > > > few
> > > > > >> squeak by.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> So... if everyone here and everywhere
> else
> > > > maintains
> > > > > >> good hiring practices, then I suspect
> that
> > we
> > > > will not
> > > > > >> have this problem of people passing the
> lab
> > and
> > > > > >> getting digits by any means necessary.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Not is they know that the cert alone is
> not
> > a
> > > > rubber
> > > > > >> stamp to a CCIE-Level position.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> However with a quick romp to the job
> boards
> > and
> > > > seeing
> > > > > >> postings like:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> CCNA required and CCIE desired... with
> MCSE
> > or
> > > > CNE or
> > > > > >> Unix experience and oh yes, we want the
> > > > candidate to
> > > > > >> install MS SQL or MS Exchange or even
> > handle
> > > > desktop
> > > > > >> support issues and Symantec AV etc...
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Hmmm... What is the point...
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Also be careful to apply to jobs that are
> > of a
> > > > CCIE
> > > > > >> caliber as well - once you get the grail.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> =====================================
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> One more thing, did anyone ever consider
> > that
> > > > maybe,
> > > > > >> just maybe, Cisco is the one putting out
> > the
> > > > "real
> > > > > >> CCIE Labs" and if they are I suppose the
> > > > proctors have
> > > > > >> a lot of fun watching things not quite
> work
> > for
> > > > > >> candidates whenever they pass through...
> > > > Here's a
> > > > > >> little but not quite a lot...
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> That is kind of sadistic... Especially
> > since
> > > > they may
> > > > > >> even have the names of the buyers...
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Hey - how many people come report back on
> > GS
> > > > and say
> > > > > >> they cannot figure out what went wrong...
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Hah!
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> LOL
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Hmmm...
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Close but no cigar...
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> --- CCIEwnaB <cciewnab@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>> OK smart peeps,
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> I have a friend who is currently working
> > on
> > > > her
> > > > > >>> CCNP, and keeps giving me a
> > > > > >>> hard time for not having passed the lab
> > yet (1
> > > > > >>> failed attempt under my belt) but I'm
> still hitting it hard
> > > > > >>> and will be
> > > > going back
> > > > > >>> in another 2 moths.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Anyway, she's convinced that when she
> > finishes
> > > > her
> > > > > >>> last NP test she'll just
> > > > > >>> pay the $1200 to the folks who shall
> > remian
> > > > nameless
> > > > > >>> and study the "3 real
> > > > > >>> CCIE labs" and pass on the first
> attempt."
> > I
> > > > agree
> > > > > >>> with what's been said
> > > > > >>> here so many times before, that the cert
> > only
> > > > means
> > > > > >>> something if you truly
> > > > > >>> are an expert and have earned it. So
> let's
> > not
> > > > get
> > > > > >>> everyone all wound up.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> That being said, does anyone have a few
> > > > stories I
> > > > > >>> can share with her, that
> > > > > >>> might be helpfull in keeping her on the
> > "HIGH
> > > > ROAD".
> > > > > >>> I keep trying to tell
> > > > > >>> her, she's going to pay $1200 for a
> couple
> > > > useless
> > > > > >>> old files and then what,
> > > > > >>> go to the proctor on test day and say,
> hey
> > > > this
> > > > > >>> isn't the test I was
> > > > > >>> expecting you must have made a mistake?
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> I'm sure there are other folks here who
> > have
> > > > fallen
> > > > > >>> for it, please share
> > > > > >>> your experiences so my friend will see
> the
> > > > light and
> > > > > >>> not surrender to the
> > > > > >>> dark side...she knows who she is
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.4 : Tue May 01 2007 - 08:28:36 ART