From: Darby Weaver (darbyweaver@yahoo.com)
Date: Sun Apr 08 2007 - 14:15:44 ART
Actually the post got filtered.
I'm pretty good with my memory and I take more notes
that most most people would consider average.
Not to compare one with the other, as plainly there
was no comparison.
A simple: "You should use the DOC CD and take time the
time to know it"
versus:
You cannot complete this task if you do not understand
your options and btw they are in the DOC CD.
And then followed up with a healthy dialogue of Q/A to
beat it into the brain.
There is a difference.
=====================
To be fair to each vendor, each has their own style -
no doubt.
Each covers things that they believe are very
important topics on the lab.
Some put a lot of emphasis on QoS, SLA, Multicast,
BGP, and IPv6.
Others put a lot of emphasis on the same as the above
and perhaps throw in quite a bit on PPP...
Still in the workbooks one sees a multitude of things
that get a lot of coverage and to be sure few topics
are left out.
However, I am speaking of Bootcamp experiences.
True the guy does not offer a workbook - not sure why?
Although I did ask the question and I think he seemed
to be comfortable doing what he is doing since he has
been doing it for so long anyway and he likes that his
materials are not on the Internet and that students
come to his class really to expect the unexpected.
So there is no comparison there at all.
And believe me - I do recall exactly how much
attention I received per class I attended. In-person
and On-line.
So when I make the comparison, it is simple and anyone
who has attended any of the same classes will have
more than likely had at least the same expereinces.
Now recall, I am not the quiet guy in the class
either. If I have a question or concern, I do ask.
Still, in all my years of public school, private
school, colleges (and I've been to more colleges than
most people have restaurants), and professional
traiing - I can clearly affirm that I have never seen
the likes of any instructor who took so much time to
engage his students. Never.
Now I'm 38 years old and I've been in school since at
least I was 5 for each of those years in one form or
another. More than a lot of people, and I have even
taught courses, so I do have a bit of both side od the
coin for experience.
Let me tell you that from my memory (and some very
intelligent people have coined it "photographic" -
even though I think it is not that as much as I'd
like), I had not received that kind of one-on-one
training since my own mother was teaching me to write
my ABC's and count before I started kindergarten.
So...
It is what it is. Nothing more and nothing less.
I'm sure everyone on this list has a similar tale to
tell regarding how personalized their own bootcamp was
or was not.
Nothing against any trainer here.
If any can be this personal with thier students - my
hat is off.
However, please do not try to compare what this man
offers compared to anyone else, I'm sure all have
their positives and their negatives.
And yes, I do not look the entire experience with
"rose-colored" lenses, I even found topics that were
not covered during my own 1 week's worth of labs that
I clearly thought should be.
And if anyone read my last post, I was in disagreement
about some of the way things were covered and material
was implemented, at least till I started to realize
the effect it had on things in the end.
So - there were some weaknesses in the materials
covered or not, but there were far more strengths and
insights.
Now, I am not a fair student at this point either, my
eyes may catch something others may not, and my ears
may hear something that does not interest others.
True.
However, I still learn things from my various COD's
and each time I try to read through another lab or
worse yet when I try to lab it up.
So, I am not quite the master just yet, or even the
expert.
I am a "master" student and I know what is exceptional
when I see it. That I can almost guarantee you.
People on this list always ask about experiences, mine
is but one of many.
Others have had great experinces at other classes, as
have I.
No disrespect intended.
--- Scott Morris <smorris@ipexpert.com> wrote:
> I'll give you credit that you are more verbose that
> many others. Brevity
> obviously not part of the vocabulary. :)
>
> "- I may be wrong here as some people (other
> instructors) have told me quite plainly that I have
> not attended their own
> classes, not to assume that this and other things
> are not covered to this
> detail; however, I have everyone's products in one
> iteration or another,
> even the European and Asian/Indian offerings and I
> can assure you all - I
> HAVE NOT SEEN IT YET - This is why I was quite
> amazed."
>
> So, without beating the dead horse of your
> experience with everyone or not,
> you are comparing apples and oranges. Let's look at
> it a simple way. You
> have people's workbooks (Which your beloved doesn't
> make one AFAIK), and
> you've seen all of these in some form.
>
> If you went to a bootcamp from one of these vendors
> and saw exactly the same
> things you saw in their workbook, what would you
> feel? If I were you I'd be
> a little pissed. So why in the world would you
> compare someone's lab
> workbook to someone else's class? That's absurd.
>
> While I certainly can't speak for all vendors
> because I haven't attended
> their classes, but these things SHOULD certainly be
> covered by anyone. Now,
> the flip side of what you are saying though, is that
> it depends a bit on
> candidates to actually comprehend and get on board
> with all these ideas.
>
> So, since you have been to some other vendor's
> classes before, let me ask
> you the question... Is it possible that perhaps
> they did cover these things
> but where you were at in your preparation you may
> not have latched onto
> those ideas yet?
>
> Just checking. (Still not wanting to be generalized
> or compared with
> something entirely different)
>
> :)
>
>
> Scott Morris, CCIE4 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service
> Provider) #4713, JNCIE
> #153, CISSP, et al.
> CCSI/JNCI-M/JNCI-J
> IPexpert VP - Curriculum Development
> IPexpert Sr. Technical Instructor
> smorris@ipexpert.com
> http://www.ipexpert.com
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com
> [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> Darby Weaver
> Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 11:10 AM
> To: A.G. Ananth Sarma (GMail)
> Cc: Scott Morris; Anis Faruqui; Cisco certification
> Subject: Re: OT-Partner Certification
>
> I know his next classes appear to be booked in May,
> there are some extra
> weeks in the in the three week version, but the
> classes are pretty much
> booked.
>
> For some reason the list does not seem to like HU
> very much.
>
> If you want more info unicast me.
>
>
> Bascially there are several things he does that not
> every does either enough
> of from what I have seen so far, or they may only
> mention some of these
> things and not cover them to the degree of their
> relative worth to a passing
> lab candidate.
>
> 1. The Discovery Phase - While others go to some
> details to explain this
> phase, HU ensures that this phase is among the most
> impoertant that you
> learn and his labs are focused on ensuring you learn
> how to discover your
> pod, document it thoroughly yet quickly
> (45 min goal), and that you can safely rely on your
> findings or you have a
> serious round of questions for the proctor.
>
> - This is important - if you screw up interface
> types or subnet masks - you
> may have problems you do not need later in the exam.
> If you survice HU,
> these are strengths for you and not weaknesses.
>
> 2. BB Connectivity - Again others may actually give
> you these in your labs -
> HU makes no such assumption and he ensures you are
> very experienced at this
> CRITICAL task and that you learn to do it early NOT
> later and he explains to
> you why it IS important to do so.
>
> - I recall from other Bootcamps being told to expect
> the unexpected when it
> comes to the BB and some labs were tricky. None
> were like HU, his reminded
> me very much of the same dilemmas I had while I sat
> both of my labs. He
> brought it home and his simple yet effective
> techniques may have helped me
> overcome a hurdle that would otherwise cost me a few
> more lab attempts.
>
> - This is major for anyone who thought they had a
> "Golden Moment" inside
> their pod, but still had a problem with the BB.
>
> - Pass or Fail - Right here, Righ now.
>
> 3. If you ever thought you knew how to subnet, HU
> will challenge you here
> and like none I have seen yet.
> Others cover it, HU will challenge you to ensure you
> know it, remember he
> expects you to do it with your eyes closed and he
> means it. In other
> classes it is assumed of the student - HU makes no
> assumptions whatsoever.
> You either can or you cannot and if you better know
> how to come up with the
> least number of statement for any ACLs. Math will
> become a true and solid
> strength. Again he has his techniques and they are
> effective.
>
> - Let's see - if you have to filter in the lab or
> summarize in the lab and
> fail to do so, you may lose points and you may just
> fail. Can I be more
> clear of the importance of these tasks? If I cannot,
> then I assure you HU
> can.
>
> - Any type of ACL is fair game, AND/XOR, Even/Odd,
> and anything in between -
> just as in the lab it MIGHT be.
> Some classes I have attended stress other topics,
> not that HU does not, but
> he knows people are scared of MATH and he removes
> this fear through solid
> techniques and solid experience, each and every day.
>
> 4. There have been many questions on this list about
> how to approach the
> proctor, how to word questions, and how many
> questions to ask, etc. Others
> have told me to ensure I bring my lab book up with
> me, make no assumptions,
> bring my lawyer, and to ask intelligent questions.
> This is simply not
> enough and not near enough detail on what to ask,
> why, and how.
>
> - HU has been from my experience thus far, the most
> detailed person on how
> to attain this MOST valuable skill - one of the
> three MOST valuable
> resources we all have during a lab is the PROCTOR,
> yet in two lab attempts
> and watching about 20-25 lab candidates take the
> damned thing very few
> seemed to ask any questions at all, they sat in the
> lab and just drowned and
> some, like me thought they pretty much had and might
> have asked a couple of
> questions but not enough, and not the right ones
> anyway.
>
> - I may be wrong here as some people (other
> instructors) have told me quite plainly that I have
> not attended their own
> classes, not to assume that this and other things
> are not covered to this
> detail; however, I have everyone's products in one
> iteration or another,
> even the European and Asian/Indian offerings and I
> can assure you all - I
> HAVE NOT SEEN IT YET - This is why I was quite
> amazed.
>
> - When I first spoke to one student about his 3-week
> experience, my eyes
> were WIDE OPEN. So many things were just made
> clear. When I sat my own
> class (the experience lessened by my own sickness,
> unfortunately), I saw so
> many things from the lab that were so clear and
> unmistakable, it was like
> OMG - not necessarily NDA violations as much as
> TRUTHS and things I had
> simply assumed. Now this is not a wake up call
> someone who has been to say
> 6-8 weeks of PAID BOOTCAMPS ought to be having on
> just DAY-1 of anyone's
> classes. These are things that just were not made
> clear by any other
> classes I had been to yet, and some were alluded to
> or suggested, but none
> had been so abrupt and genuinely "honest" in the
> approach to making the
> point.
>
> - This is UNIQUE - if I told you more HU would kill
> me. If you've been to
> the rest and you still have not passed, then you may
> need to make a trip to
> visit Heiko or HU or another who teaches their art.
> Cause while you may
> find it elsewhere, I would NOT bet on it.
>
> 5. The UNIVERCD - Another of the three most useful
> tools in the Lab, others
> stress it. With HU, you cannot complete his labs
> w/o it. Simple as that.
> You will be forced to learn it, use it, love it,
> know it, and you will leave
> with a firm and confident ability to simply find
> anything and find it
> quickly as a result of his techniques. Again,
> others stress it true, but
> none of the materials that I have yet to see or the
> classes made me dig like
> HU did, and maybe this is my fault for "cheating
> sometimes and using an AK".
>
>
>
> - BTW - HU will not give ANY AK till the end of the
> class, he keeps you on
> your toes and while I solidly disagreed with this
> the entire time, thinking
> I could be learning from it, by the end of the week,
> I understood why he did
> not give us immediate gratification and since I
> actually had to LEARN each
> topic without the benefit of knowing how it was
> solved on the last lab, I
> had to LEARN why on the fly - again hello proctor
> and hello UNIVERCD.
>
> 6. Challenge - No other instructor actually watched
> my every keystroke, no
> other instructor actually asked me why - mostly each
> and every time. I
> could argue that I was trying to take a "MOCK LAB"
> but HU is not about
> scores and about EGO, he is about solid learning and
> about ensuring his
> students get their digits. I had a hard time with
> this at first and I
> learned to bite my tongue and to use the proctor and
> the UNIVERCD.
>
> - Seriously, the man WILL ask you WHY you need the
> question mark as you type
> and you better have an answer.
>
> - He is not sleeping during class, he is not doing
> anything else but using
> all of his skills to ensure that you learn how to
> apply yours. Again, we
> have all been to classes and we love our CORE-4, but
> unless someone
> pleasantly surprises me, I think I can say that I
> got more 1-on-1 attention
> in HU's class than all of the other 6-8 weeks
> combined from ALL the other
> classes and instructors. And I was sick 1/2 of the
> time.
>
> - This level of quality-assurance and of attention
> is hard to find - very
> hard to find - but perhaps it is our fault as
> consumers for not demanding
> it.
>
> - In some classes I attended, I felt like either the
> best prepped students
> got the grease, or those who were terribly and
> visibly lost got the grease,
> and us in between were mostly left to our own
> devices - I did not feel like
> this with HU. He gave each student attnetion and
> feedback on a 1-on-1
> basis. And I understand he personally mentors each
> of his instructors to do
> the same (they are also ALL former students with no
> exception).
>
> Overall the rest of the technical tips, tricks,
> topics etc. are more or less
> what you will see in other labs, no doubt, but the
> way you feel after you
> leave HU is quite different and quite extraordinary.
> I've felt better
> prepped after each of my classes, no doubt, but I
> can honestly say, that
> even if I were going to start teaching a class any
> CCIE-level class, I have
> learned a lot from HU, that I simple DID NOT learn
> anywhere else. He has
> one goal: TO EMPOWER YOU TO PASS THE LAB.
>
> Others have lists - and some people on the list just
> simply bought the
> materials and they passed the lab eventually.
> However - some of those even
> went to HU before passing the Lab.
>
> I do not in all my years reading this list and
> scouring the Internet as few
> others may have done, have ever heard of anyone
> having to go to another
> trainer to PASS THE LAB after taking a HU Bootcamp.
>
> Anyone know different?
>
> Now I may be the sole exception to this rule, but
> again, I have more
> objectives than simply passing a certification exam
> and even the CCIE is
> simply an exam for me.
>
> So their you have it.
>
> I have told you some of the deep dark secrets of HU
> and some of the things I
> think are important.
>
> I might add he seems to customize a bit as he goes
> just to personalize the
> experience, maybe to help protect his copyrights -
> must be effective, when
> is the last time anyone saw a PDF of a HU Lab laying
> around on a pubstro,
> newsgroup, or torrent?
>
> Believe it or not he is modest at least as much as
> some of my other favorite
> instructors and he is definately as sincere.
>
> I still do not quite understand the animosity others
> seem to have for him on
> this list.
>
> He's apparently not even a member here.
>
> Go figure.
>
> Jealousy? Competition? Mabye because he's been at
> it longer than most
> others here, even most of our favorites?
>
> Anyway HU.com spelled out and email at H@HU.com or
> H.U.@HU.com
>
> The name is banned and any message with it will not
> post of GS.
>
> Again unicast me for details.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- "A.G. Ananth Sarma (GMail)"
> <ananth.sarma@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Dear Darby,
> >
> > This is very good sense of humor.
> >
> > By the way, any update on HU's class?
> >
> > ( I am serious and if you do not want to tell
> everybody, you may
> > unicast
> > me!)
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Ananth
> >
> >
> > On 4/6/07, Darby Weaver <darbyweaver@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Actually,
> > >
> > > Just register a different CCO number a few times
> > under
> > > a few names and take the lab several times and
> > pass at
> > > least 4 times.
> > >
> > > You cannot use your SSN in this case.
> > >
> > > (And rememeber just because personality #1 can
> > pass
> > > the RS in one take, does not mean the three
> rocks
> > can,
> > > they may require a few shots).
> > >
> > > Do the same thing for the CCNP - again 4
> different aliases, 4 diff
> > > CSCO Numbers, and 4 CCO Accounts.
> > >
> > > Do the same thing for the CCNA/CCDA level
> > >
> > > Do the same thing for the Sales Certs.
> > >
> > > Let's see - you have 16 split personalities and
> > can
> > > now fill the 16 roles required for Gold Level
> Partnership.
> > >
> > > The problem comes when you have to fill out 16
> > income
> > > tax returns and when you have to be in 16
> > locations.
> > >
> > > Of course you could probable leagally marry 8 of
> > your
> > > personalities to the other 8... So your income
> > tax
> > > filing problem are sortof 1/2 of what they were.
> > >
> > > And you could always assign teams to projects
> > instead
> > > of splitting them up.
> > >
> > > Now if you provide remote services and learn to
> > script
> > > very well and multi-task at least moderately
> > well...
> > >
> > >
> > > Just remember to bill for each of your split
> personalities, since
> > > they gotta be legit
> > employees.
> > >
> > > And don't forget each personality needs a
> personal cell, a personal
> > > email, a bio on the website, and
> > lest
> > > we forget a personal VPN account. Now I have
> seen
> > a
> > > co-worker use VM's to use multiple VPN Clients
> on
> > one
> > > machine to simoultaneously VPN to accounts...
> > >
> > > So tell me, I wonder what happens if a person
> > actually
> > > used this technique to pay federal taxes, I mean
> > take
> > > one job under SSN #1 and another job under SSN
> #2, etc. A new tax
> > > loophole...?
> > >
> > >
> > > Whew!
> > >
> > > Bizarro World...
> > >
> > > The things some people won't do to become a
> > one-man
> > > Cisco Gold Partner in this day and age.
> > >
> > > OK - Guys back the CatOS to IOS Conversion that
> > didn't
> > > quite happent the way I expected last night.
> > >
> > > Later...
> > >
> > >
> > > BTW - This was a bit of joke... Even if someone
> > does
> > > actually do it at some point.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- Scott Morris <smorris@ipexpert.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > No, there must be multiple people in different
> roles. Otherwise,
> > > > strange folk like me could be Gold Partners
> all by themselves. :)
> > > >
> > > > The partner requirements pages on CCO should
> > spell
> > > > all this out. Otherwise
> > > > your CAM will be able to give you the
> > requirements.
> > > >
> > > > HTH,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Scott Morris, CCIE4
> > (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service
> > > > Provider) #4713, JNCIE
> > > > #153, CISSP, et al.
> > > > CCSI/JNCI-M/JNCI-J
> > > > IPexpert VP - Curriculum Development IPexpert
> Sr. Technical
> > > > Instructor smorris@ipexpert.com
> http://www.ipexpert.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: nobody@groupstudy.com
> > > > [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> Anis Faruqui
> > > > Sent: Friday, April 06, 2007 9:05 AM
> > > > To: Cisco certification
> > > > Subject: OT-Partner Certification
> > > >
> > > > Hi Friends,
> > > >
> > > > Sorry for an OT-It will be very kind of you
> > Gurus to
> > > > let me know about the
> > > > Cisco Partners eligibilty .Can they put thier
> > Single
> > > > Employee having
> > > > multiple certification in the different roles
> > asked
> > > > by cisco to satisfy some
> > > > partner level like silver or Gold.
> > > >
> > > > For example for Silver Partnership A company
> > need 1
> > > > CCNA,CCDA,CCNP,CCVP,CCIE.
> > > >
> > > > So if the Company's sinigle Employee is
> holding
> > all
> > > > this certificates is he
> > > > qualified to be placed as an individual for
> each
> > of
> > > > this cerfiticates?
> > > >
> > > > Need your insight on this matter.
> > > >
> > > > regards,
> > > >
> > > > Anis Faruqui...
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.4 : Tue May 01 2007 - 08:28:35 ART