From: Scott Thornton (scthornton@gmail.com)
Date: Thu Mar 22 2007 - 11:17:34 ART
Thanks Scott, I was starting to gag reading some of this...
The fact of the matter, no matter which vendor you choose, you still have to
put in the time and effort...any shortcuts and it will catch up to you on
the job!
On 3/22/07, Scott Morris <swm@emanon.com> wrote:
>
> While the diatribes are an interesting read (backup career in marketing?),
> I
> do finally have to take issue with something:
>
> "Some CCIE instructors have multiple CCIE's but the very best at RS have
> one
> CCIE RS and Mr. Heinz and Mr. Caslow set the standards for being the very
> best."
>
> While I will be the first to admit that I've never met Mr. Ulm (Heinz is
> first name as I recall), I've known Mr. Caslow for years. Having one or
> multiple CCIE's has nothing to do with making someone the best or better
> than anyone else. It's simply a different set of experiences. I have
> great
> respect for Bruce Caslow (and all the NMC group), but whether they have
> one
> or more CCIEs a piece has nothing to do with the quality or ranking of
> their
> work!
>
> While you appear to have taken the NMC courses and are now in Heinz's
> bootcamp, I certainly appreciate the idea that you can offer personal
> impressions and comparisons between the two illustrating your opinion of
> both of those.
>
> However, until you have honestly met and sat through every vendors course,
> and truly know their styles and/or capabilities, coming up with assertions
> like you do really pushes the novel back to the rank of "marketing fluff"
> rather than a truly valuable piece of information.
>
> So if you are on a mission to make statistical comparisons and a ranking,
> certainly do so. But if not, tone the marketing down a bit. I think we
> get
> the point.
>
> Just my two cents, of course... But I believe that's what makes an
> "impression" anyway, right? ;)
>
>
> Scott Morris, CCIE4 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service Provider) #4713, JNCIE
> #153, CISSP, et al.
> CCSI/JNCI-M/JNCI-J
> IPexpert VP - Curriculum Development
> IPexpert Sr. Technical Instructor
> smorris@ipexpert.com
> http://www.ipexpert.com
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> Darby Weaver
> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 4:51 AM
> To: Danny Cox; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: Re: Heinz Ulm - Day-2 - 1st Impressions - Kinda like the 300, but
> he has 500 CCIE's
>
> Thanks Danny,
>
> Yes - Heinz is unique - he takes situations and turns your weaknesses into
> strengths.
>
> He teaches how to approach a proctor and he teaches his students how to
> MAKE
> an impression.
>
> He hurts uyour feellings and makes you drop your pride at the door.
>
> However, you are thoroughly reminded at how many people looked before who
> walked in your shoes and how many of them got their CCIE's and some within
> days of visiting his bootcamp.
>
> He does not understand how anyone can learn or teach everything for the
> CCIE
> in just 5 or 10 days.
>
> He now offers these in the U.S. but he reminds his students of his 3 week
> -
> Get in, Get trained, and Get CCIE philosphy.
>
> He is not nice, his tricks and traps are subtle and if you think you
> spotted
> issue A or even B, you can rest assured you had better find issue C.
>
> His problems are OSI-layered and he expects his students to know the
> difference or if not to learn them - trial by fire.
>
> He and I have talked now at some length and he explained to me about how
> many came unprepared but left enlightened and with solid skills to
> ultimately pass the CCIE Lab - time after time.
>
> One cannot argue his results.
>
> One can only imagine how he keeps his students motivated even when their
> eyes are blood red and their faces are worn out.
>
> Heinz does it time after time - he might as well have a template.
>
> I think you asked about his "Instructors" that he leaves behind. They are
> all former students. The one that is giving a bootcamp in Germany right
> now
> is named "Heiko" and he is a "Dirty Evil Bastard" just like Heinz...
>
> I had the pleasure of experiencing a lab customized by him today... He is
> at least as cunning as Heinz and may even be more...
>
> Heinz is a master. His instructors are chosen and are groomed
> accordingly.
> He watches them just like we watches us.
>
> It is an amazing thing really.
>
> I would say if you can - do whatever you need to do and get 3 weeks to get
> to his classes - even if you had to do them week by week. - Although
> three
> weeks at one time would be best - it seems.
>
> I'm not only preaching this, I'm looking for a way to do it myself.
>
> It is worth it. 3 Weeks in Hell for a career of
> being a more capable CCIE...
>
> Not a bad bargain if I am any judge.
>
> His 3 Week pricing is cheaper that most other vendors
> 2 Week offerings.
>
> His hotel rates are 1/2 to 1/3 the price of places like Herndon - I paid
> over $100.00 and $175.00 for hotels there.
>
> Overall it is not only the most complete training but it also the best
> bargain for the buck.
>
> While I like the InternetworkExpert COD, and I love the reviews. They are
> great but they assume one is going to do labs - Heinz makes no such
> assumptions.
> You simply do labs and more labs and have more problems at each layer of
> the
> OSI-model to contend with.
>
> Totally A-W-E-S-O-M-E!!!
>
> He is professional. He checks his email twice per day while giving
> classes.
>
> He's Germman and is always punctual.
>
> Oh yes - he pays for meals as well - each day - while he continues to
> assail
> your brain with more twisters.
>
> With NMC-1 and NMC-2 -> Probably the closest I have seen to Heinz, their
> is
> no NMC-0 built in... If you are behind and need to catch up, you usually
> have to do it yourself and perhaps take another week or two to repeat the
> class - More $$$ even if only for Travel and Expenses. I've been there
> and
> done that as well.
>
> Heinz covered this gap and covered it quite well. He takes nothing for
> granted. He asks you to come prepared, but if you falter, he is there to
> catch you and berate you a bit and motivate you to move on...
>
>
> His training is simply the B-O-M-B!!!
>
> I'm really wondering why he is not mentioned more here on GS.
>
> He teaches all over the world. Someone in the mideast (Not to mention
> names) used his name to sell their products... Hmmm... Think about this
> one...
>
> He was not happy with it, but imitation is the highest form of flattery.
>
> You won't find his labs on the Internet, on any Newsgroups or any FTP...
> His students appreciate that this is his livelihood and respect that.
>
> You will have to and visit the Master-Jedi Yoda all on your own...
>
> Some CCIE instructors have multiple CCIE's but the very best at RS have
> one
> CCIE RS and Mr. Heinz and Mr.
> Caslow set the standards for being the very best.
>
> In any event it is 3am in Denver and I have to sleep - I'm very dehydrated
> and am still a quite a bit sick.
>
> Later...
>
> Darby
>
>
> --- Danny Cox <dandermanuk@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Useful feedback Derby, thanks - especially as you've spent so much
> > time evaluating so many of the vendors. It's harder in Europe - the
> > best guys are in the US. The only other guy who has a particularly
> > high reputation in Europe that I'm aware of is Martin Shortland of
> > Kinetic Edu but I he's always booked up with company courses
> >
> > Ah well
> >
> > Thanks again and i hope your brain survives
> >
> > Danny
> >
> > On 22/03/07, Darby Weaver <darbyweaver@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
> > > If I had to explain why his labs are so unique,
> > then
> > > one may never understand...
> > >
> > > Another student wrote me from Germany - Heiko is
> > the
> > > instructor there and apparently he had a play in
> > that
> > > nasty lab I was presented today...
> > >
> > > Someone asked how the quality was of Heinz's instructors were...
> > > Hmmmm... Apparently the
> > apple
> > > did not fall.
>
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-- Scott C ThorntonNotice: This e-mail (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you have received the message in error, then delete it. Thank you.
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