From: Haloween Boy (ciscob20@gmail.com)
Date: Mon Mar 19 2007 - 08:49:39 ART
Hi,
Thanks so much for the information. May I know how much is the averae
billing rate for a CCNP+CCDP+CCSP certified guy with 7yrs of experience?
I know hard to predict but would like to know so that I don't fall into
wrong hands.
I got a call from some unknown consultant who was telling me some salary
sharing of 60:40 with no medical benefits and I was zapped to how much they
are earning by placing me.
Please suggest & enlighten me on this.
Regards,
S B
On 3/19/07, Scott Morris <swm@emanon.com> wrote:
>
> That's a very good point. And one where I've always been amused with the
> "CCNA required, CCIE preferred." All ya want to say is "duhhhh..." :)
>
> Scott
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Daniel_Steyn@Dell.com [mailto:Daniel_Steyn@Dell.com]
> Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 4:21 PM
> To: swm@emanon.com; emad_fahmi123@yahoo.com; darbyweaver@yahoo.com;
> iyux2000@gmail.com; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: RE: CCIE Salary - For people taking H1-B's - Listen carefully.
>
> I think that many companies do not know how to recruit technical people,
> which is part of this problem. I don't think that they specifically want
> to
> hire CCIEs and pay them 30 Gs to screw them over - I think that it is more
> of a recruiting error and not knowing any better. Let me explain...
>
> I believe that at the top of every non-technical company are non-technical
> people making decisions. Take a shoe store for example.
> All that a shoe store owner has to know is how to manufacture/sell shoes
> and
> do a good job with it. At some point, will he need a network?
> Absolutely! How does this man go about hiring a lead network engineer?
> He could go to a staffing firm (which is probably the best idea as he
> doesn't know what is involved) or he could go and search monster for
> "network engineer" and see that people are looking for CCNAs, CCNPs and
> CCIEs. This is probably why there are postings on monster and dice today
> saying "CCNA or CCIE preferred" and paying 30Gs. I think that this is
> because the recruiter has no idea what is actually involved to get these
> certifications - but knows that others want people with those skills. I'm
> sure that you have all seen those out there. Any posting asking for a CCIE
> or a CCNA obviously has some bigger issues to deal with - so don't bother
> applying for those!
>
> Also, how does a non-technical person go about hiring a networking
> director?
> If you are the best man for the job but only list that you have expert
> understanding in BGP, OSPF, EIGRP, NAT, etc. - this is Greek to the
> recruiter. All that the person hiring wants to know is that you know
> "networks". You can be the best engineer in the world - but if you don't
> know how to communicate with non-technical people (including
> recruiters) - your career opportunities will be limited. Maybe this is
> also
> why the CCIE is known for its ambiguous questions.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> Scott Morris
> Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 8:31 AM
> To: 'emad fahmi'; 'Darby Weaver'; iyux2000@gmail.com;
> ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: RE: CCIE Salary - For people taking H1-B's - Listen carefully.
>
> I think that would be up to the company who happens to be hiring, and
> you'd
> probably start hitting the major job boards like monster, careerbuilder,
> dice, etc.
>
>
> Scott Morris, CCIE4 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service Provider) #4713, JNCIE
> #153, CISSP, et al.
> CCSI/JNCI-M/JNCI-J
> IPexpert VP - Curriculum Development
> IPexpert Sr. Technical Instructor
> smorris@ipexpert.com
> http://www.ipexpert.com
>
>
> _____
>
> From: emad fahmi [mailto:emad_fahmi123@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 6:58 AM
> To: Scott Morris; 'Darby Weaver'; iyux2000@gmail.com;
> ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: RE: CCIE Salary - For people taking H1-B's - Listen carefully.
>
>
> can anyone tell names for agencies specified for giving H1B for CCIEs
> Thanks
>
> Scott Morris <swm@emanon.com> wrote:
>
> Not to dispute (or debate) many of the things that you state in here,
> however.... If you have your 250-500K house and multiple 40-80K cars and
> have children in the best schools, perhaps this is why, even at $100K,
> many
> people cannot afford to take vacations.
>
> There is a difference between working to live, and living to work. Not
> only
> should you work on salaries in line with other comparable professionals
> (there are plenty of surveys to cite), but you should temper how much of
> that "American Dream" you try to bite off all at once.
>
> Too many Americans have that "American Delusion" going on. Drowning is
> debt
> is not the dream, but often the reality for those who overextend.
>
> Just my two cents....
>
>
> Scott Morris, CCIE4 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service Provider) #4713, JNCIE
> #153, CISSP, et al.
> CCSI/JNCI-M/JNCI-J
> IPexpert VP - Curriculum Development
> IPexpert Sr. Technical Instructor
> smorris@ipexpert.com
> http://www.ipexpert.com
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> Darby Weaver
> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 12:34 AM
> To: iyux2000@gmail.com; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: OT: CCIE Salary - For people taking H1-B's - Listen carefully.
>
> If you are non-U.S. citizen and you get your CCIE and want to work in the
> U.S...
>
> Listen up and listen well.
>
> About the average U.S. salary for a CCIE is around $115,000.00 U.S.
>
> What does this mean to you?
>
> It means that some U.S. companies may try to lure you here for say less
> than
> $50,000.00 U.S. and take a bit of advantage of the fact you want to work
> in
> the U.S.
>
> My advice: Turn them down... Cold.
>
> Here's why:
>
> Any U.S. company that wants to hire you based on your CCIE status is going
> to profit greatly from hiring you.
>
> Now, there literally about 1000 companies looking for CCIE talent every
> single day - no matter how many pass the lab that day...
>
> Supply and Demand.
>
> My advice - learn to negotiate. Let them give you a number.
>
> If it is under $100,000.00 U.S. - they did not want you anyway and if they
> did you may find later it was probably better you waited just a bit longer
> you could have doubled or tripled your salary.
>
> Sound outrageous?
>
> Go to www.monster.com and www.dice.com put your resume online and wait...
>
> Won't take long...
>
> If fact put it up before you get your CCIE, you may be amazed at the
> opportunities that are presented to you even at the CCNP level.
>
> Mention your lab experience (even if you fail) on your C.V.
>
> Make the American Dream work for you too...
>
> This also applies to your friends in I.T who are DBA's and other I.T.
> Professional.
>
> Once you take the job you will be slaving away like the rest of us and
> your
> stress level will improve since you will be able to afford a $200-500,
> 000.00
> home or even better, you will be able to afford a couple of nice
> $40-80,000.00 cars and your children will be able to attend the best
> schools
> in your city of choice.
>
> I promise you will hate yourself every single day that you go to work with
> your CCIE certification, knowing that the CCNA who just got out of the
> Cisco
> Academy is making more than you are and is driving a better car while you
> are walking to work from the closest apartment complex.
>
> So learn to negotiate, - I feel so strongly about this matter, I will
> negotiate for you or give you personal tips if you like.
>
> No more free lunches for companies - an H-1B only costs a few thousand
> dollars to obtain...
>
> Hey, even if you take a 30k salary and double it to 60k you win and they
> still got you at 1/2 the price - so they win... (Still you are being
> robbed).
>
> We call this a WIN/WIN in the U.S. Corporte Environment and you can still
> afford to eat at McDonald's for lunch at least.
>
> Which when you get here - you may notice that your H.R people may never
> eat
> at McD's... and your co-workers in I.T. seem to avoid like the plague...
>
> Which by the way... also kills your ability to fraternize with your
> co-workers - they think you are avoiding them, the truth is they spend
> more
> on lunch than you spend on bus fare... to get to work.
>
>
> Now the rub - if a company turns you down, you will be surprised at how
> quickly the next one makes a play for you.
>
> It is the United States and we have literally thousands of companies.
>
> In the end, you will have to do what is best for you and your family.
>
> However, if you take a minimum wage CCIE job... you will likely have to
> wait
> for maybe 2 years or more to move your family here while you wait in the
> H-1B to get approved and finalized...
>
> All the while, you are missing your wife or husband and your kids are
> growing up barely seeing their daddy or mommy.
>
> Don't get me wrong you can fly to see them (at least say $700-1000.00 or
> more for a flight) but now this continues to drain your salary further...
>
> And did anyone tell you about "Uncle Sam" and local state taxes and Sales
> and Use Taxes during the interview - never mind withholding for Social
> Security and FICA...
>
> Yep - your 30k - just got raped and diminished about $10k at least...
> and
> if you have to start using credit cards or buy that car - you are going to
> pay interest as well...
>
> My wife (Venezuela) tells me all the time how people in her country - even
> the lowest paid workers can afford quality health care and vacations...
>
> Many people in the U.S. with under $30k salaries go without healthcare -
> they need the cash to get by.
>
> Many people in the U.S. with $100K+ salaries do not take vacation and some
> companies seem to even frown on it... others require you take it.
>
> Choose wisely.
>
> OK - I just was talking with another friend of mine who is getting / got
> raped and is alive to tell the tale...
>
> So...
>
> Learn to negotiate - it may be worth more than a handful of tech certs and
> a
> Master's in Technology combined...
>
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