From: Scott Morris (swm@emanon.com)
Date: Tue Feb 20 2007 - 00:25:38 ART
Guys... This is clearly one of those things that will escalate WAY beyond
the point of useful information or entertaining banter.
Quantity alone does not indicate a better choice, nor does price. Being an
instructor I will attempt to quash the urge to come up with a colorful
analogy involving a car comparison or anything else involving multiple
choices and statistics among them.
Let's just leave it at there are multiple choices out there, and each one
has its merits and likely its bad points too. Each one has a slightly
different approach to doing things, marketing things, and plotting ways to
take over the world.
Some things may appeal to some people, others may not. However whether our
name in the snow is written in block letters, cursive, or someone else's
handwriting entirely should not make any difference and doesn't help anyone
else learn anything.
Opinions are like .... Well, you get the idea. Everyone has one. Let it
rest and get back to the more appropriate technical discussions. It
prevents me from filling up my Deleted Items folder. ;)
Scott Morris, CCIE4 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service Provider) #4713, JNCIE
#153, CISSP, et al.
CCSI/JNCI-M/JNCI-J
IPexpert VP - Curriculum Development
IPexpert Sr. Technical Instructor
smorris@ipexpert.com
http://www.ipexpert.com
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
Narbik Kocharians
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 9:53 PM
To: istong@stong.org
Cc: Darby Weaver; ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: Re: Passing CCIE Stats.
DW,
There is this author that goes around from restaurant to restaurant and
tastes the food and compares the menus and writes an article in the local
news paper, they just recently found out that the guy was an alcoholic and
his taste bbbbbbbuds were shot, I didn't know that group study was
interviewing for a commentator and/or I have not seen or read your new paper
or articles, but you should stop drinking, because its starting to effect
your taste buuuuuuds as well. Mate you are so wrong it's beyond discussion.
On 2/19/07, Ian Stong <istong@stong.org> wrote:
>
> One other note - I would not put too much weight in the number of
> CCIE's posted on a website that have used a particular vendors
> product. Some vendors offer nicer incentives to candidates to keep
> them posted on their passing or not and some just are better at marketing
it than others.
> Nothing against any of the vendors - just an observation....
>
>
> Ian
> www.ccie4u.com
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
> Of Darby Weaver
> Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 7:52 PM
> To: Narbik Kocharians; Marvin Greenlee
> Cc: Brian Dennis; jennytan; Brian McGahan; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: Passing CCIE Stats.
>
> All,
>
> Brian Dennis has a valid point, their site does list a very impressive
> list of passing CCIE's (the most of any vendor currently and for a
> while now) and if an existing CCIE with a lower CCIE number actually
> reported passing using the InternetworkExpert End-to-End CCIE program
> of study (for the first time,
> perhaps) then, I suspect that lower number would probably show up
> close to the top of the list.
>
> And recall that many CCIE's pass and have used one or more vendor's
> products - so a given name might show up on one or more sites.
>
> What the list does not show is which vendors helped them make it over
> the edge - this you'll have to read the success stories here on GS for
> or simply ask them.
>
> Now, I hate to hurt anyone's feelings but just about anyone (someone
> may want to count them and actually try and correct me here) who has
> ever used InternetworkExpert's materials has typically put them in the
> "this is why I passed" category. Going a step further, I have also
> read some other less flattering comments about other vendors as well
> in the same testimonials, but overall those who pass using more than
> one vendor's materials will be cordial to all who helped them along
> the way.
>
> So, what I got from this, after reading so many CCIE success stories
> over the past 6-7 years is that InternetworkExpert is burning CCIE's
> faster than a "skillet of popcorn"... on a high heat.
>
> What is more it seems is that if all of the people who are passing
> using the IE materials were using other vendor's materials, the other
> vendors are failing to keep track of it and posting it as a result
> (this might mean a poor repoire - but I do not believe that at all -
> so it does mean that IE must be selling like hotcakes).
>
> I do not want to tell anyone how to run their business's or pricing
> model, but $5000.00 for an end to end program - including workbook,
> audio, 2 weeks in class in-person, COD, 1 Week Mock Labs, and another
> set of 10 Core Labs, and an ever-increasing technology library - CAN
> BE VERY VERY PERSUASIVE, especially given the quality of the goods.
> They are typically rate 5 STARS (*****).
>
> So if you are another vendor and you cost more than something like
> this, you might want to re-evaluate your pricing plans - unless you
> have enough business
> already:
>
> 1. 2 Weeks CCIE-Level Foundations - If you cost more that
> $3000-5000.00 - you might have some issues competing.
>
> 2. 1 Week Mock Labs - If you cost more than say $1000.00 or so... You
> could find it very hard to compete.
>
> 3. If your whole program exceeds say $5,000.00 end-to-end - You got
> issues.
>
> 4. If you do not have an equal or better group of product offerings -
> You may have some problems competing with these guys.
>
> Anyone caring to research each vendor's site can check and compare.
>
> Excuse me if I made any mistakes.
>
> It has been my humble observance that
> InternetworkExpert has set a pretty high standard of expectations on
> what exactly "AN END-TO-END CCIE PROGRAM" actually means.
>
> Mostly everyone else is trying to keep up or tread water and if I were
> in the top four, I might feel a bit threatened.
>
> The program these guys are offering appears to scale very well.
>
> Hey, if you do not believe me - check each site and make a spreadsheet
> and compare apples to apples.
>
> We are all IT people and spreadsheets are common knowledge these days.
>
> Do homework and take a look around...
>
> Maybe all CCIE Vendors ought to take a step back and ask themselves
> "Exactly what is InternetworkExpert doing right?" and perhaps we all
> would benefit greatly.
>
> Back to my racks...
>
> Got some work to knock out...
>
> 4 more hours tonight...
>
> And yes my name will likely be on each vendor's list as well. Since
> I've used them all at this point in the game and will use each of them
> to compare and contrast my skills.
>
> Basically, as Bruce Caslow from NetMasterClass says "The best CCIE Lab
> prep compares your checklist against anyone's labs".
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> _ Subscription information may be found at:
> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>
>
>
>
-- Narbik Kocharians CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security) CCSI# 30832 Network Learning, Inc. (CCIE class Instructor) www.ccbootcamp.com (CCIE Training)
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