From: Tim Curci (timcurci@adelphia.net)
Date: Sat Feb 10 2007 - 17:42:49 ART
OK...Great...Isn't this a CCIE list. i.e. I thought this list was created to
discuss technical issues.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Larkins" <andrew.larkins@BTGroup.co.za>
To: "Richard Dumoulin" <Richard.Dumoulin@vanco.fr>; "Scott Morris"
<swm@emanon.com>; "joshua lauer" <jslauer@hotmail.com>; "Tom Larus"
<tlarus@cox.net>; "Du, Jianbo" <jdu@ebay.com>
Cc: "Gobind" <gobind@inbox.com>; "Faryar Zabihi (fzabihi)"
<fzabihi@cisco.com>; "Seemore Tops" <topass_ccie12@hotmail.com>;
<ccielab@groupstudy.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 2:48 PM
Subject: RE: RE : Lab rats make me mad
> What I find worse than this are the people using the cheat sheets and
> brain dumps to get the exams and certs done - that pushes every button I
> have and more......
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> Richard Dumoulin
> Sent: 10 February 2007 21:08
> To: Scott Morris; joshua lauer; Tom Larus; Du, Jianbo
> Cc: Gobind; Faryar Zabihi (fzabihi); Seemore Tops;
> ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: RE : Lab rats make me mad
>
> I have 10 years of experience now in the field and I can assure that
> having studied for the CCIE helped me a lot in my job. It is making a
> big difference with my colleagues in the office that did not take the
> time to study
>
> -- Richard
>
> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] Envoyi :
> Saturday, February 10, 2007 7:38 PM @ : 'joshua lauer'; 'Tom Larus';
> 'Du, Jianbo'
> Cc : 'Gobind'; 'Faryar Zabihi (fzabihi)'; 'Seemore Tops';
> ccielab@groupstudy.com Objet : RE: Lab rats make me mad
>
> You'll always find arguments on both sides... Studying for a lab exam
> can
> generate some level of experience for tricky things. Other stuff in
> real life (politically-based?) can never be learned in a lab.
>
> I have known great engineers on both ends of the spectrum for certified
> or not. A CCIE does not necessarily make someone a good engineer. NOT
> having a CCIE does not necessarily make someone a bad engineer (or not
> as good).
>
> Everyone will be different, and no matter where you look there are some
> good apples and some bad apples.
>
> C'est la vie.
>
> All we can do is strive to make ourselves individually better!
>
>
> Scott Morris, CCIE4 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service Provider) #4713,
> JNCIE #153, CISSP, et al.
> CCSI/JNCI-M/JNCI-J
> IPexpert VP - Curriculum Development
> IPexpert Sr. Technical Instructor
> smorris@ipexpert.com
> http://www.ipexpert.com
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> joshua lauer
> Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 1:14 PM
> To: Tom Larus; Du, Jianbo
> Cc: Gobind; Faryar Zabihi (fzabihi); Seemore Tops;
> ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: Re: Lab rats make me mad
>
> I totally agree,
>
> the study habits I gained from passing the lab were invaluable. In
> addition, being able to digest a difficult scenario in a limited amount
> of time enabled me to not only be a better engineer but a better
> manager. It makes you less afraid of difficult situations.
>
>
> jl
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom Larus" <tlarus@cox.net>
> To: "Du, Jianbo" <jdu@ebay.com>
> Cc: "Gobind" <gobind@inbox.com>; "Faryar Zabihi (fzabihi)"
> <fzabihi@cisco.com>; "Seemore Tops" <topass_ccie12@hotmail.com>;
> <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 11:05 AM
> Subject: Re: Lab rats make me mad
>
>
>> If you, Du Jianbo, really believe that the CCIE can ever be considered
>
>> a paper certification, then you:
>>
>> 1) do not know how hard the process of passing the CCIE Lab is (a lot
>> of us underestimated the difficulty for the first few months of
>> preparation) or
>> 2) you think the CCIE is really not all that valuable, in which case
>> it probably is not worth the effort or
>> 3) you have heard of people who cheated to pass it, so it really was
>> not as hard for them as it ought to have been or
>> 4) you have CCIE and just don't want more competition, or
>> 5) you have the misconception, shared by many, that the CCIE is
>> Cisco's imprimatur or "seal of quality" bestowed on highly experienced
>
>> network engineers. Some people think that is what the CCIE is or
>> should be, but it is a test of your ability to master a large, but
>> finite, body of material, and execute a series of tasks fraught with
>> many issues that will be hidden from you if you do not understand the
> material well.
>>
>> Sometimes I actually forget how valuable what I learned from preparing
>
>> for the CCIE Lab can be in the real world, and these "Lab Rat" threads
>
>> get me down, but then something happens to remind me that I gained
>> valuable knowledge and skills and understanding. Recently a friend of
>
>> mine (who has employed me in the past for some lucrative consulting
>> work) was talking to me about a problem a friend of his was having at
>> his job site. The symptoms reminded me right away of one of the first
>
>> things I learned when I was doing labs on a Cisco practice lab at NC
>> State University. I said, "It sounds like the old collapsing tunnel
>> problem," and explained what that meant. That was the clue that
>> helped get the problem resolved. So it was something I learned in a
>> lab, but it had real world value. It seemed obvious to me, but is not
>
>> obvious to everyone, including a few people with a lot more paid
> experience than me.
>>
>> The point is that a Lab Rat should not be made Lead Engineer, but will
>
>> still add considerable value to a team. By this I mean the kind of
>> value that vastly exceeds what we normally associate with a "paper
>> certification."
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Tom Larus, CCIE #10,014
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Du, Jianbo wrote:
>>
>>>Totally agree! Without working experience, CCIE cert is a paper only.
>>>
>>>
>>>Regards,
>>>Jerry
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
>>>Of Gobind
>>>Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 4:08 AM
>>>To: Faryar Zabihi (fzabihi); Seemore Tops; ccielab@groupstudy.com
>>>Subject: RE: Lab rats make me mad
>>>
>>>I completely agree with Faryar,i.e. the Lab Rats really keep the value
>
>>>of CCIE.
>>>
>>>Gobind
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: fzabihi@cisco.com
>>>>Sent: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 14:03:07 -0500
>>>>To: topass_ccie12@hotmail.com, ccielab@groupstudy.com
>>>>Subject: RE: Lab rats make me mad
>>>>
>>>>Lol...how about something better since these lab rats actually know
>>>>
>>>>
>>>the
>>>
>>>
>>>>stuff.
>>>>How about the thousands of people who have a ccie but can't even
>>>>
>>>>
>>>properly
>>>
>>>
>>>>reverse telnet into a router or even spell dhcp. I say on ur 3rd
>>>>recert...u take the lab again or something harder than the freakin
>>>>written. I personnaly think the lab rats keep the value of the ccie
>>>>and don't allow it to be
>>>>
>>>>
>>>a
>>>
>>>
>>>>political cert.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>From: Seemore Tops [mailto:topass_ccie12@hotmail.com]
>>>>Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 01:50 PM Eastern Standard Time
>>>>To: ccielab@groupstudy.com
>>>>Subject: Lab rats make me mad
>>>>
>>>>I think Cisco needs to create a policy similar to the CISSP for work
>>>>experience for CCIE certification. I think this would stop the lab
>>>>
>>>>
>>>rats
>>>
>>>
>>>>from getting into the system.
>>>>
>>>>_________________________________________________________________
>>>>Turn searches into helpful donations. Make your search count.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>gline
>>>
>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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