From: Scott Morris (swm@emanon.com)
Date: Sat Feb 10 2007 - 15:38:16 ART
You'll always find arguments on both sides... Studying for a lab exam can
generate some level of experience for tricky things. Other stuff in real
life (politically-based?) can never be learned in a lab.
I have known great engineers on both ends of the spectrum for certified or
not. A CCIE does not necessarily make someone a good engineer. NOT having
a CCIE does not necessarily make someone a bad engineer (or not as good).
Everyone will be different, and no matter where you look there are some good
apples and some bad apples.
C'est la vie.
All we can do is strive to make ourselves individually better!
Scott Morris, CCIE4 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service Provider) #4713, JNCIE
#153, CISSP, et al.
CCSI/JNCI-M/JNCI-J
IPexpert VP - Curriculum Development
IPexpert Sr. Technical Instructor
smorris@ipexpert.com
http://www.ipexpert.com
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
joshua lauer
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 1:14 PM
To: Tom Larus; Du, Jianbo
Cc: Gobind; Faryar Zabihi (fzabihi); Seemore Tops; ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: Re: Lab rats make me mad
I totally agree,
the study habits I gained from passing the lab were invaluable. In addition,
being able to digest a difficult scenario in a limited amount of time
enabled me to not only be a better engineer but a better manager. It makes
you less afraid of difficult situations.
jl
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Larus" <tlarus@cox.net>
To: "Du, Jianbo" <jdu@ebay.com>
Cc: "Gobind" <gobind@inbox.com>; "Faryar Zabihi (fzabihi)"
<fzabihi@cisco.com>; "Seemore Tops" <topass_ccie12@hotmail.com>;
<ccielab@groupstudy.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 11:05 AM
Subject: Re: Lab rats make me mad
> If you, Du Jianbo, really believe that the CCIE can ever be considered
> a paper certification, then you:
>
> 1) do not know how hard the process of passing the CCIE Lab is (a lot
> of us underestimated the difficulty for the first few months of
> preparation) or
> 2) you think the CCIE is really not all that valuable, in which case
> it probably is not worth the effort or
> 3) you have heard of people who cheated to pass it, so it really was
> not as hard for them as it ought to have been or
> 4) you have CCIE and just don't want more competition, or
> 5) you have the misconception, shared by many, that the CCIE is
> Cisco's imprimatur or "seal of quality" bestowed on highly experienced
> network engineers. Some people think that is what the CCIE is or
> should be, but it is a test of your ability to master a large, but
> finite, body of material, and execute a series of tasks fraught with
> many issues that will be hidden from you if you do not understand the
material well.
>
> Sometimes I actually forget how valuable what I learned from preparing
> for the CCIE Lab can be in the real world, and these "Lab Rat" threads
> get me down, but then something happens to remind me that I gained
> valuable knowledge and skills and understanding. Recently a friend of
> mine (who has employed me in the past for some lucrative consulting
> work) was talking to me about a problem a friend of his was having at
> his job site. The symptoms reminded me right away of one of the first
> things I learned when I was doing labs on a Cisco practice lab at NC
> State University. I said, "It sounds like the old collapsing tunnel
> problem," and explained what that meant. That was the clue that
> helped get the problem resolved. So it was something I learned in a
> lab, but it had real world value. It seemed obvious to me, but is not
> obvious to everyone, including a few people with a lot more paid
experience than me.
>
> The point is that a Lab Rat should not be made Lead Engineer, but will
> still add considerable value to a team. By this I mean the kind of
> value that vastly exceeds what we normally associate with a "paper
> certification."
>
> Best regards,
> Tom Larus, CCIE #10,014
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Du, Jianbo wrote:
>
>>Totally agree! Without working experience, CCIE cert is a paper only.
>>
>>
>>Regards,
>>Jerry
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
>>Of Gobind
>>Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 4:08 AM
>>To: Faryar Zabihi (fzabihi); Seemore Tops; ccielab@groupstudy.com
>>Subject: RE: Lab rats make me mad
>>
>>I completely agree with Faryar,i.e. the Lab Rats really keep the value
>>of CCIE.
>>
>>Gobind
>>
>>
>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: fzabihi@cisco.com
>>>Sent: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 14:03:07 -0500
>>>To: topass_ccie12@hotmail.com, ccielab@groupstudy.com
>>>Subject: RE: Lab rats make me mad
>>>
>>>Lol...how about something better since these lab rats actually know
>>>
>>>
>>the
>>
>>
>>>stuff.
>>>How about the thousands of people who have a ccie but can't even
>>>
>>>
>>properly
>>
>>
>>>reverse telnet into a router or even spell dhcp. I say on ur 3rd
>>>recert...u take the lab again or something harder than the freakin
>>>written. I personnaly think the lab rats keep the value of the ccie
>>>and don't allow it to be
>>>
>>>
>>a
>>
>>
>>>political cert.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>From: Seemore Tops [mailto:topass_ccie12@hotmail.com]
>>>Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 01:50 PM Eastern Standard Time
>>>To: ccielab@groupstudy.com
>>>Subject: Lab rats make me mad
>>>
>>>I think Cisco needs to create a policy similar to the CISSP for work
>>>experience for CCIE certification. I think this would stop the lab
>>>
>>>
>>rats
>>
>>
>>>from getting into the system.
>>>
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