From: Nart, Selim (SNart@Vignette.com)
Date: Thu Feb 01 2007 - 18:17:36 ART
What a VLAN?
.....I am just kidding
snart
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of Lay, Rob
Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 2:48 PM
To: swm@emanon.com; Marvin Greenlee; Razl Angel Velazquez Rodriguez; security@groupstudy.com; ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: RE: CCIE Security Lab Workbook Advice
I think that Scott has a pretty good point here, I agree that there is a large amount of stuff which "should" be self-explanatory, in particular at CCIE level. To use Scott's example, if I needed to see how each vlan was added to the switch then I think everyone would agree that I am no-where near ready for the CCIE lab exam.
When I wrote the question this morning I had spent some time looking through the samples from both IP expert and Internetwork Expert. The IP Expert sample was much shorter and unfortunately didn't include the solution section. This is the section where the Internetwork Expert sample was really good, not so much for the step by step solutions, I breezed past most of that anyway (the only exceptions being the odd area that I feel particularly weak on and needed the background) but the bit that I found best were the "pit falls" and "strategy tips" sections, these are the bits that I won't be able to get from the standard cmd refs that I can download from CCO.
With this being my first CCIE Lab exam it's the sections like this that help shed light on what to expect in the exam and tips on how to tackle the lab (and let me be clear, I'm not asking anyone to break the NDA, just offer advice). Unfortunately this is where the IP Expert sample lacked something, it doesn't give me any idea of the additional hints and tips that I might find - hence the question this morning.
The complete final configs are obviously needed, but anyone who has worked with IOS (and other Cisco OS's) and is studying for the Lab should be able look through them and see which commands have which effect, otherwise how would you troubleshoot in the lab??
In some respects a blend of a couple of different vendors books is probably the best way to go, but few of us probably have the money to be able to afford that!! :-)
Thanks for the advice so far guys.
Rob
Rob Lay CCSP CCNP
Network Engineer
Honeywell Network Services
Direct : +44 (0)1344 656556
Mobile : +44 (0)7974 451827
mailto : robert.lay@honeywell.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Morris [mailto:swm@emanon.com]
Sent: 01 February 2007 20:10
To: 'Marvin Greenlee'; 'Razl Angel Velazquez Rodriguez'; Lay, Rob; security@groupstudy.com; ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: RE: CCIE Security Lab Workbook Advice
Just as a side note regarding the "this should be self-explanatory"
items.... Different people have different views on how to learn
information, and there should always be some semblance of challenge along
the way.
Many things honestly are self-explanatory, and if (at the CCIE level) you
need to see how each VLAN is added into a switch, then there are
technolgy-focussed labs (1-18) for that. When designing the Routing and
Switching Proctor Guide, we did go through some internal debate about the
wording, but felt it was better to not insult the intelligence of the
candidates by spelling out every single detail. If this was taken too far
(if something isn't obvious), then certainly feel free to e-mail me and
we'll talk about fixing a problem if one exists. Otherwise, wasting trees
and hurting everyone's back for creating significantly larger books didn't
seem to help.
On the other hand, labs 37 through 40 took the approach of nothing being
obvious. This was to depart from that particular format as well as give
candidates an insight into the lab creator's minds when going through these
labs. Even more importantly, each of those four labs was created and
performed by four different people so you would also gain exposure to
different people's views, questions, answers and thinking. (In case you
care, Lab 40 is how you may have some insight into my own personal warped
sense of humor)
All of this is a journey towards understanding why something works, not just
a quick and easy way to understand one person's lab and hope that matches
what you see on the real lab too! Not everyone benefits from the same
learning styles, but that doesn't make it wrong.
In any event, if you are/were disappointed with anything in particular, feel
free to let me know so I can understand your thinking and why it may be
different than mine (or whichever developer's). But don't assume one is
right or wrong or good or bad. :)
Cheers,
Scott Morris, CCIE4 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service Provider) #4713, JNCIE
#153, CISSP, et al.
CCSI/JNCI-M/JNCI-J
IPexpert VP - Curriculum Development
IPexpert Sr. Technical Instructor
smorris@ipexpert.com
http://www.ipexpert.com
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
Marvin Greenlee
Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 2:25 PM
To: Razl Angel Velazquez Rodriguez; Lay, Rob; security@groupstudy.com;
ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: RE: CCIE Security Lab Workbook Advice
The current versions of the IPExpert SP / Security proctor guides do not
have questions answered as "this should be self-explanatory".
Internetwork Expert shows their updated Security version as "Coming Spring
2007" and do not list a "class on demand" for security on their website, so
it's interesting that you are recommending products that don't exist yet.
As far as the IPExpert updated security WB, I believe that it is either
already shipping, or shipping in the next few days, depending on when orders
were placed.
You would have to check with the sales team to know for sure.
Marvin Greenlee, CCIE #12237 (R&S/Security/Service
Provider)
IPexpert Senior Technical Instructor
marvin@ipexpert.com
http://www.ipexpert.com
Toll Free (U.S.): +1.866.225.8064
International: +1.810.326.1444
--- Razl Angel Velazquez Rodriguez
<RVELAZQR@migesa.com.mx> wrote:
> In my opinion, by far, the best is
> InternetworkExpert.
> This opinion is based on the R&S, I bought both R&S workbook, and its
> very disapointing the "Proctor Guide" of Ipexpert, because many
> questions are answered as "This should be self explanatory" and that's
> all.
> Besides the cost of InternetworkExpert is 379 USD and the IPExpert is
> 499 for the workbook and 499 for the proctor guide, a total of 998
> USD.
>
> I know that if you want to pass the CCIE you must know, but in my
> opinion if you buy a material to study its because you don't know just
> yet. Consider the Class On Demand of InternetworkExpert too, belive
> me, its worth the money.
>
> But hey, that's just my opinion. Im sure there is market for every
> vendor, and Im sure that some persons in this list preffer the
> IPexpert products.
>
> ------------------------------------
> Raul Angel Velazquez Rodriguez
> CCIE #16048
> tel: 81 83894527
> fax: 81 83890406
> ------------------------------------
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com
> [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of Lay, Rob
> Sent: Jueves, 01 de Febrero de 2007 05:58 a.m.
> To: security@groupstudy.com; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: CCIE Security Lab Workbook Advice
>
> Hi all,
>
> I'm looking for some advice on workbooks for the CCIE Security Lab.
>
> I'm currently studying for my CCIE in Security and have been looking
> at both the IPExpert and InternetworkExpert workbooks. I've
> downloaded the samples from both (the internetwork expert one is the
> sample lab from the R&S track) but it seems like the Internetwork
> expert book is provides a much better learning platform.
>
> These books are pretty pricy and I want to get some advice on which is
> best before shelling out for them.
>
> The Internetwork Expert book seems to have a better format, it gives
> the lab scenario and then the explanations afterwards show the full
> configurations which relate to the section, give pointers and I really
> like the "pitfalls" sections which seem to offer some good advice on
> things to watch out for.
> Since this will be my first CCIE lab exam that sort of stuff seems
> really helpful.
>
> Can anyone offer any advice on which is the better book, I'd
> appreciate any comments from people on how they've found working with
> these workbooks.
>
> Thanks
>
> Rob Lay CCSP CCNP
> Network Engineer
> Honeywell Network Services
> Direct : +44 (0)1344 656556
> Mobile : +44 (0)7974 451827
> mailto : robert.lay@honeywell.com
>
>
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