From: chris (iannaconec@optonline.net)
Date: Thu Aug 24 2006 - 17:52:01 ART
I earned my MCSE on 2k with a security specialization - Perhaps it
was because i has been using windows 2000 as a desktop os for a few
years prior to taking the exam - and I had several years experience
with PC hardware and software troubleshooting i found it very easy to
pass - I had to study NetBios and the Microsoft ways of doing it ,
but i already had somewhat of a foundation.
I agree the Doc CD wont make you an expert - but those questions that
make you go Huh? that every lab has a habit of asking - the ones so
obscure you wouldn't remember exactly how to do it - Doc CD can
refresh your memory , without it you might end up spotting Cisco some points.
the Practical component ensures that a Network Engineer knows how to
do the work.
CCIE is just a milestone - once i get it i will probably have the
same attitude i do of the MCSE - The certification and two bucks will
get a cup of coffee.
At 04:24 PM 8/24/2006, you wrote:
>Agreed that working from the foundation up is paramount. I myself worked up
>from the NT Admin days and I do think it gives you a much better
>understanding of what a network Engineer should do. After all dont we
>provide a network service to those servers? I agree that MCSE does not hold
>the same prestige as it did in the 90's but is that as a result of flooding
>the market or as a result of people dumping! Equally you don't leave school
>and think why bother with a degree Ill just go striaght for a PHD! It
>doesn't work like that. As Joshua says no certification should be the end
>of the road, it should simply open a new door in your never ending quest to
>earn knowledge.
>
>Reading the doc Cd is not going to make you and expert! That comes through
>experience, blood sweat and tears. I have worked with guys with multiple Ps
>(NP,DP,IP) who know about Cisco but nothing else, if you don't understand
>the fundamentals how can you provide a good service or know why you are
>doing it! And often they don't weigh all the options up. As said before I
>would employ a strong experienced guy without certs over somone with only
>Certs to their name!
>
>Graham Clarke
>
>No number yet :(
>-----Original Message-----
>From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
>Joshua Lauer
>Sent: 24 August 2006 20:56
>To: Wes Stevens; Darby Weaver; Scott Morris; chris; ccielab@groupstudy.com
>Subject: Re: CCNA carrer
>
>The first I learned about TCP/IP, really learned, was picking up the MCSE
>TCP/IP book and then taking the test. This is back in the NT days. Although
>my MCSE was expired long ago, it did give me solid basis for learning
>everything I know now. It also gives you some "street cred" with the server
>guys when doing some joint troubleshooting. I may not be an active directory
>wiz, but I know enough about what's going on to hold an intelligent
>conversation and to sift through the B/S :)
>
>I never thought the MCSE was the "end all, be all"
>certification, if that were the case I would have stopped there a long time
>ago. IT in general is a learning process, I set my sights on the CCIE years
>and years ago but I never planned on stopping here.
>I'm going to do them all, then probably move onto other things in the field.
>
>
>
>
>jl
>
>Joshua Lauer
>
>CCIE#16024
>
>CCNP, CCSP, CCDP, CCIP, INFOSEC
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Wes Stevens" <wrsteve33-gsccie@yahoo.com>
>To: "Darby Weaver" <darbyweaver@yahoo.com>; "Scott Morris" <swm@emanon.com>;
>"Joshua Lauer"
><jslauer@hotmail.com>; "chris"
><iannaconec@optonline.net>; <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
>Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 3:44 PM
>Subject: Re: CCNA carrer
>
>
> > While I would never go back to working on servers, the experience does
> > make me a better network engineer. Knowing the MS protocols really
> > helps at times to be able to nail down a problem when you have 25
> > people on a conference call and a critical eBusiness service down. It
> > especially helps when the servers folks cannot find the problem and
> > then blame the network - which happens more often then it should.
> >
> > Wes Stevens
> > MCSE (from back in the nt4 days) ccie 11480 and the other certs...
> >
> > PS how many have loaded up a OS2 box with version
> > 1.2 diskettes. I would say it was a challenge but it was closer to
> > pure pain.....
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Darby Weaver <darbyweaver@yahoo.com>
> > To: Scott Morris <swm@emanon.com>; Joshua Lauer <jslauer@hotmail.com>;
> > chris <iannaconec@optonline.net>; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 12:48:07 PM
> > Subject: RE: CCNA carrer
> >
> >
> > Hmmm...
> >
> > I see many Network Engineers / Administrator's with comparatively
> > little understanding of the other OS's on the network outside of the
> > IOS.
> >
> > This is somehow very wrong.
> >
> > I make a living going to networks, analyzing the flows, and cleaning
> > up what other "Engineers" have done before.
> >
> > I love my MCSE, it gave the momentum to learn these critical skills.
> >
> > In fact, even today when my job is mostly dealing with Cisco Gear, I
> > love the fact that my other skills with Network Analysis and my MCSE
> > have given me in the terms of understanding exactly how to deal with
> > almost any given issue, most of the time.
> >
> > So for those who did not or could not make much out of their "lower"
> > certs, my heart bleeds for you.
> >
> > For those that do and are making something out of them, I commend you.
> >
> > Either way, you know who you are, even if your boss or your peers does
> > not... :)
> >
> > Anyone who has attained their own MCSE fairly and through rigorous
> > study and discipline should have little problem excelling in the field
> > and are probably excellent candidates for Cisco and Juniper certs.
> >
> > Look at most of the people here, aside from those who are strictly
> > came from the Telecom world, mostly all have MCSE or CNE, etc behind
> > their name.
> >
> > Think about it.
> >
> > A strong CCNA is better than a weak CCNP. Think about that one as
> > well.
> >
> >
> >
> > --- Scott Morris <swm@emanon.com> wrote:
> >
> >> I'd agree with Joshua. While perhaps not as
> >> marketable, I do get to laugh a
> >> number of times at CCIE folks who look to
> >> grandiose
> >> solutions for very
> >> simple problems because they don't understand
> >> stuff
> >> like Layer 1 problems,
> >> or MS/Novell/whatever operating system
> >> client/server
> >> issues.
> >>
> >> Being well rounded is never a bad idea. Don't
> >> sell
> >> any of the other certs
> >> short. CCNA/NP is a different path, but
> >> certainly
> >> not wasted time in terms
> >> of making yourself a better engineer.
> >>
> >>
> >> Scott Morris, CCIE4
> >> (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service
> >> Provider) #4713, JNCIE
> >> #153, CISSP, et al.
> >> CCSI/JNCI-M/JNCI-J
> >> IPExpert VP - Curriculum Development
> >> IPExpert Sr. Technical Instructor
> >> smorris@ipexpert.com
> >> http://www.ipexpert.com
> >>
> >> (plus MCSE, plus (expired) CNE, plus CTP, plus
> >> CCNA,
> >> plus CCNP, plus CCDP,
> >> plus a bunch of other stuff)
> >>
> >> :)
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: nobody@groupstudy.com
> >> [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> >> Joshua Lauer
> >> Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 12:56 PM
> >> To: chris; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> >> Subject: Re: CCNA carrer
> >>
> >> Back when the CCIE was the only certification you
> >> could get maybe this makes
> >> sense. However starting from the ground up makes
> >> more sense, why not get a
> >> good base and build your way up the pyramid?
> >>
> >> You'll have gaps in your knowledge if you dont
> >> get a
> >> good base. In my view,
> >> being a CCIE is more than knowing about protocols
> >> and being able to find
> >> things on the DOC CD.
> >>
> >> I wouldnt say that MCSE or COMPTIA certs are
> >> jokes,
> >> maybe to some people.
> >> But others have to start somewhere, might as well
> >> be
> >> there. Many people
> >> (including myself) started at MCSE and graduated
> >> along the path.
> >>
> >> jl
> >>
> >>
> >> Joshua Lauer
> >>
> >> CCIE#16024
> >>
> >> CCNP, CCSP, CCDP, CCIP, INFOSEC
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "chris" <iannaconec@optonline.net>
> >> To: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> >> Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 9:59 AM
> >> Subject: CCNA carrer
> >>
> >>
> >> > Why go for CCNA or CCNP jump in with both feet
> >> > and
> >>
> >> > go for the CCIE - learn all you can about the
> >> > protocols and become expert at finding things
> >> > on
> >> > the documentation cd - You should be able to
> >> > find
> >> > any given topic within ten minutes. comptia and
> >> > MCSE is a joke as far as employability , IMO
> >> >
> >>
> > _______________________________________________________________________
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> >>
> >>
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> >>
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> >
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