From: graham@cisco-engineer.com
Date: Thu Aug 24 2006 - 17:24:42 ART
Agreed that working from the foundation up is paramount. I myself worked up
from the NT Admin days and I do think it gives you a much better
understanding of what a network Engineer should do. After all dont we
provide a network service to those servers? I agree that MCSE does not hold
the same prestige as it did in the 90's but is that as a result of flooding
the market or as a result of people dumping! Equally you don't leave school
and think why bother with a degree Ill just go striaght for a PHD! It
doesn't work like that. As Joshua says no certification should be the end
of the road, it should simply open a new door in your never ending quest to
earn knowledge.
Reading the doc Cd is not going to make you and expert! That comes through
experience, blood sweat and tears. I have worked with guys with multiple Ps
(NP,DP,IP) who know about Cisco but nothing else, if you don't understand
the fundamentals how can you provide a good service or know why you are
doing it! And often they don't weigh all the options up. As said before I
would employ a strong experienced guy without certs over somone with only
Certs to their name!
Graham Clarke
No number yet :(
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
Joshua Lauer
Sent: 24 August 2006 20:56
To: Wes Stevens; Darby Weaver; Scott Morris; chris; ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: Re: CCNA carrer
The first I learned about TCP/IP, really learned, was picking up the MCSE
TCP/IP book and then taking the test. This is back in the NT days. Although
my MCSE was expired long ago, it did give me solid basis for learning
everything I know now. It also gives you some "street cred" with the server
guys when doing some joint troubleshooting. I may not be an active directory
wiz, but I know enough about what's going on to hold an intelligent
conversation and to sift through the B/S :)
I never thought the MCSE was the "end all, be all"
certification, if that were the case I would have stopped there a long time
ago. IT in general is a learning process, I set my sights on the CCIE years
and years ago but I never planned on stopping here.
I'm going to do them all, then probably move onto other things in the field.
jl
Joshua Lauer
CCIE#16024
CCNP, CCSP, CCDP, CCIP, INFOSEC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wes Stevens" <wrsteve33-gsccie@yahoo.com>
To: "Darby Weaver" <darbyweaver@yahoo.com>; "Scott Morris" <swm@emanon.com>;
"Joshua Lauer"
<jslauer@hotmail.com>; "chris"
<iannaconec@optonline.net>; <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 3:44 PM
Subject: Re: CCNA carrer
> While I would never go back to working on servers, the experience does
> make me a better network engineer. Knowing the MS protocols really
> helps at times to be able to nail down a problem when you have 25
> people on a conference call and a critical eBusiness service down. It
> especially helps when the servers folks cannot find the problem and
> then blame the network - which happens more often then it should.
>
> Wes Stevens
> MCSE (from back in the nt4 days) ccie 11480 and the other certs...
>
> PS how many have loaded up a OS2 box with version
> 1.2 diskettes. I would say it was a challenge but it was closer to
> pure pain.....
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Darby Weaver <darbyweaver@yahoo.com>
> To: Scott Morris <swm@emanon.com>; Joshua Lauer <jslauer@hotmail.com>;
> chris <iannaconec@optonline.net>; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 12:48:07 PM
> Subject: RE: CCNA carrer
>
>
> Hmmm...
>
> I see many Network Engineers / Administrator's with comparatively
> little understanding of the other OS's on the network outside of the
> IOS.
>
> This is somehow very wrong.
>
> I make a living going to networks, analyzing the flows, and cleaning
> up what other "Engineers" have done before.
>
> I love my MCSE, it gave the momentum to learn these critical skills.
>
> In fact, even today when my job is mostly dealing with Cisco Gear, I
> love the fact that my other skills with Network Analysis and my MCSE
> have given me in the terms of understanding exactly how to deal with
> almost any given issue, most of the time.
>
> So for those who did not or could not make much out of their "lower"
> certs, my heart bleeds for you.
>
> For those that do and are making something out of them, I commend you.
>
> Either way, you know who you are, even if your boss or your peers does
> not... :)
>
> Anyone who has attained their own MCSE fairly and through rigorous
> study and discipline should have little problem excelling in the field
> and are probably excellent candidates for Cisco and Juniper certs.
>
> Look at most of the people here, aside from those who are strictly
> came from the Telecom world, mostly all have MCSE or CNE, etc behind
> their name.
>
> Think about it.
>
> A strong CCNA is better than a weak CCNP. Think about that one as
> well.
>
>
>
> --- Scott Morris <swm@emanon.com> wrote:
>
>> I'd agree with Joshua. While perhaps not as
>> marketable, I do get to laugh a
>> number of times at CCIE folks who look to
>> grandiose
>> solutions for very
>> simple problems because they don't understand
>> stuff
>> like Layer 1 problems,
>> or MS/Novell/whatever operating system
>> client/server
>> issues.
>>
>> Being well rounded is never a bad idea. Don't
>> sell
>> any of the other certs
>> short. CCNA/NP is a different path, but
>> certainly
>> not wasted time in terms
>> of making yourself a better engineer.
>>
>>
>> Scott Morris, CCIE4
>> (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service
>> Provider) #4713, JNCIE
>> #153, CISSP, et al.
>> CCSI/JNCI-M/JNCI-J
>> IPExpert VP - Curriculum Development
>> IPExpert Sr. Technical Instructor
>> smorris@ipexpert.com
>> http://www.ipexpert.com
>>
>> (plus MCSE, plus (expired) CNE, plus CTP, plus
>> CCNA,
>> plus CCNP, plus CCDP,
>> plus a bunch of other stuff)
>>
>> :)
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nobody@groupstudy.com
>> [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
>> Joshua Lauer
>> Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 12:56 PM
>> To: chris; ccielab@groupstudy.com
>> Subject: Re: CCNA carrer
>>
>> Back when the CCIE was the only certification you
>> could get maybe this makes
>> sense. However starting from the ground up makes
>> more sense, why not get a
>> good base and build your way up the pyramid?
>>
>> You'll have gaps in your knowledge if you dont
>> get a
>> good base. In my view,
>> being a CCIE is more than knowing about protocols
>> and being able to find
>> things on the DOC CD.
>>
>> I wouldnt say that MCSE or COMPTIA certs are
>> jokes,
>> maybe to some people.
>> But others have to start somewhere, might as well
>> be
>> there. Many people
>> (including myself) started at MCSE and graduated
>> along the path.
>>
>> jl
>>
>>
>> Joshua Lauer
>>
>> CCIE#16024
>>
>> CCNP, CCSP, CCDP, CCIP, INFOSEC
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "chris" <iannaconec@optonline.net>
>> To: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 9:59 AM
>> Subject: CCNA carrer
>>
>>
>> > Why go for CCNA or CCNP jump in with both feet
>> > and
>>
>> > go for the CCIE - learn all you can about the
>> > protocols and become expert at finding things
>> > on
>> > the documentation cd - You should be able to
>> > find
>> > any given topic within ten minutes. comptia and
>> > MCSE is a joke as far as employability , IMO
>> >
>>
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