From: Scott Morris (swm@emanon.com)
Date: Wed May 03 2006 - 10:23:33 ART
Nothing tops experience... And I think that's really the underlying point
of the article itself.
In technical truths, the CCxP is merely a collection of exams tested on by
multiple choice for the most part. So theorhetically it's possible to not
know something yet still pass the test. I still remember back to my
original CCIE R&S written exam (back in the old days), where a LOT of the
test was about Token Ring and these obnoxious RIF decodes. I never had
experience with a token ring network in real life, and yet I was expected to
know that stuff.
After passing the CCIE written, (about two weeks later) I discovered that my
method of calculating RIFs was flawed. Yet I passed the exam. Even after
passing the CCIE lab back then when token ring was still a big part, I would
hardly qualify myself as being a token ring expert. Later on, through
teaching CIT, I learned much more about token ring (where I WOULD be
comfortable in live networks), but it was still never part of my experience.
Just because you pass an exam, or know a topic well enough to pass a set of
scenarios in a lab exam does not automatically mean you're a guru for real
life stuff. Even if that exam is the CCIE! We'd love to think so, but A
does not necessarily equal B.
I know some CCIE's who I would not trust to run a real life network of any
decent size. Likewise, I know some GREAT people with large networks who
have absolutely 0 certifications. One I know went out and got his A+ just
so he could be amused when telling people what certification he had and yet
what he did and how much he was in charge of. Funny enough, it took him 4
times to pass the A+, because much of their topic list he didn't use in real
life!
Don't get hung up on the talk about certifications. Like everything, there
are fluctuations in the marketplace. Experience is paramount. Concentrate
on getting that. Certifications may separate you from other clients, but in
the end the question remains whether you can really do something in real
life.
Theory != Reality.
;)
Scott Morris, CCIE4 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service Provider) #4713, JNCIE
#153, CISSP, et al.
CCSI/JNCI
IPExpert CCIE Program Manager
IPExpert Sr. Technical Instructor
smorris@ipexpert.com
http://www.ipexpert.com
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
Marius Venter
Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 1:06 AM
To: darbyweaver@yahoo.com; ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: RE: interesting article of certifications
Now this could lead into an entire new direction. Imagine this, a well
respected CCNP, CCSP asking me to configure his PIX for him. Is this not
perhaps where things are going wrong? CCSP = PIX Guru or so I thought. You
could of course get all the exam questions from this guy in a flash if you
want it.
Perhaps after all, it is the person that has the certification that actually
adds the value to the certification and the certification does not actually
add much value to the person.
Now that is why I believe that the CCIE is a certification worth pursuing.
No shortcuts here.
I also know a CCNA that almost single handedly runs one of the biggest ISP
networks in South Africa and this guy is brilliant.
Makes you think.
My 2 cents worth
Marius Venter
MCP, MCSE, MCSD, MCT, CIWCI, CIW Foundations, CIW Security, JCT, JCP, CCNA,
CCDA, CCDP, CCNP, CCIP, CCSP, CCSI. CCIE = soon :0)
Certifications Devalued?
Hmmm...
Maybe for some...
I'm doing well with my wall of wonders and think that they are one of the
best investments I've ever made...
They help me a career education-oriented professional. They help keep me up
to date with relevant technologies. And they, they keep me focused on my
career...
Now if you thing some guys who doesn't know the difference between a CCEA
and CCNP is going to tell me about the value of my investments, you better
think again.
It doesn't hurt that I happen to have the CCEA, the MCT, the CCNP, and some
of the choice Voice Certs (UCSE and IPCC), etc.
In addition to others...
Now for those who think having a bunch of certs is counter-productive...
maybe if you just bought every vendor's certs in a year or two, that might
be true for YOU...
However, I have achieved my qualfications since the day of the dog, and I
typically work with most every technology included on my wall...
Which mean's if it is on the alphabet soup list behind my name, I know that
technology. Period. At least to the degree and vintage of the
certification.
I'll admit I am getting rusty with that CCEA, but hey it usually helps me in
a pinch, and I'm not the guy who is afraid of Citrix or Terminal Services...
:)
My other quals are quite active... and very represntative with my day-to-day
work that I do, so I feel they are quite relevant.
Summary: If you do what you do, know what you know, strive to be better
tomorrow than you are today or were yesterday, then I.T. is the career
choice for you...
If you are looking for a rainbow, behind a piece of paper, then you are
probably one of those certified guys who has an armload of certs but somehow
manage to find themselves delivering pizza or waiting tables...
Just me perspective and yes I have seen folks doing both of those jobs and
somehow I seem to attract them - delivery people marvel when they see my
Cisco Rack and a Couple of SGI's in the room just of the entrance to my
house and the waiters seem to never fail to recognize some of the study
materials I bring with me while I wait to dine at restaurants...
So I'm not picking on people - those are experiences... Live... And yes,
I've met the Satellite Installers who are MCSE's too...
So that is not an exaggeration, those are facts...
But hey, the flipside, is I work with almost an entire department of
non-certified people and most of whom tend to have gotten to where they are
by being hand-selected by the organization.
So, that is both worlds and it is kind of nice to see companies that try to
promote from within before going outside for talent.
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