From: Scott Morris (swm@emanon.com)
Date: Mon Jan 09 2006 - 12:14:50 GMT-3
Well.... I think that the impact on your career path that many people think
existed years ago was a bit hyped up and always seen as that Utopia kinda
thing. IMHO, that's not much different than people thinking they could get
their MCSE and earn 6-figure salaries. I'm sure at some point, someone did,
and someone else assumed that was the perfect way to do it, and thus the
tale begins.... :)
Never has the CCIE been the "ending" to the certification path. Anyone who
has obtained their CCIE should certainly realize that the more they know,
the more they realize they don't know.
In the marketplace, for hiring folks, there's a shift driven by the market
(and some not-so-bright people coming up with things). Give it time, it
will shift back. It always amazes me how many job descriptions are written
where CCNA is required but CCIE preferred. Well, no shit. But any CCIE
would be bored out of their mind doing CCNA-level work all the time.
As for the ROI on the CCIE, well, like anything there is no magic involved.
I liken this one to my wife who is an OR nurse. She's been a nurse for 16
or so years now, working in the operating room most of that time. A few
years ago she wanted to get into teaching since a position was open at her
old college. They were looking for someone to teach with surgical
experience. She has her RN, she has a CNOR certification (like a nursing
cert for the OR). In order to teach at college-level, she needed to have a
Masters' degree. So she set out on that path. Two years and
$30,000-some-odd dollars in tuition later, she had her Masters' degree.
Those were the entry-level requirements for the job. Teaching at college
level only pays like $40,000-ish a year in the beginning. So what's the ROI
on that? By the time you look at comparing it to what she was making and
how much was spent to get to the next level, it seems ridiculous.
That was my thought anyway (good logical engineer that I am). But it was
what she wanted to do. THAT made all the difference.
So if you're looking for a quick turnaround on your investment, it MAY
happen, but it's not really likely. The top pay and super sign-on bonuses
go to folks that have a ton of experience or other plusses to go with it.
The CCIE doesn't bring that. It helps you get to that place, but it's not
an immediate effect. But sometimes, you do things because you want to, and
that helps make them worthwhile. If you have a family, they certainly need
to be involved in this decision because it IS indeed a tough, long road.
But is it what makes you happy?
As for multiples and the impact. Well... Not a whole lot in terms of
immediate gain. The market is the market, and doesn't change much. So,
just because I have four CCIE's and a JNCIE does not mean I make 4-5 times
more than someone with one CCIE. That would be pretty cool, but the market
doesn't work that way. I may make a bit more than some, and be able to
justify somewhat higher rates, but that's it. On the other hand, when it
comes to competing with someone else it is certainly a big plus having been
able to demonstrate expert-level knowledge in multiple areas (hopefully with
experience to go with that!). THAT is where the benefit is.
That and the personal satisfaction. So working on your security track is a
good thing! There is a good market for smart security folks! But don't
expect it to double your salary. Just expect it to double your chances of
getting a job when competing against others! :)
HTH,
Scott
-----Original Message-----
From: Niche [mailto:jackyliu419@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 5:43 AM
To: Scott Morris
Cc: CCIEin2006; Imal kalutotage; Suzan S.; ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: Re: SP CCIE
Hi Scott,
Would you mind sharing more about your thought and experience on this topic?
I know CCIE no longer provide the same effect to the career path improvement
as it once did.. but to many of us, it's like the training path of becoming
a Jedi (ok, I admit I am taking this to the extreme cause I want to make
myself feel better ^_^;). It kinda like THE must-to-be-done target that I
have set years ago when I was still green in this field.
A few people told me that you wouldn't get back what you would have to spent
on getting a CCIE no. (courses, books, family time, setting up lab or rent,
exam. fee.. etc) at least for a few years. Do I feel confuse? yeah, abit..
everyone want to get a better career path, especially when you dedicate so
much for a CCIE no.
I think all of us are really want to know more about this cause (espscially
from you) CCIE no. (R&S, Security, SP, etc) always come with a great cost
(family time, money, spiritual training, etc).
I am working on my security track after R&S (just passed security written
today), I am surely one of the readers in here want to know how being a CCIE
(or a dual-CCIE, even multiple, like Scott) will impact to my career path
nowadays.
Looking forward to your valuable input~!
P.S. A song suddenly come to my mind when I am typing this... "It's a
looooooong road......"
Best Regards,
Jacky
On 1/9/06, Scott Morris <swm@emanon.com> wrote:
> Sometimes that happens. Kinda like not everyone working as a network
> engineer is a good one, the same holds true for HR and recruiting
> folks! :) Some care, others don't.
>
> The only thing I could offer is to blow it off. if they really can't
> pull their heads out of their asses long enough to do something other
> than filling in a checkbox to find the RIGHT guy, then you probably
> don't want to work for a company like that anyway as that is probably
> just the tip of the iceberg.
>
> Scott
>
> _____
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