From: Scott Morris (swm@emanon.com)
Date: Wed Oct 26 2005 - 21:23:00 GMT-3
Very nice...
One other thing to add to Brian's note about explaining it to someone else,
sometimes you THINK that you know something until you start to explain it.
As the words start coming out of your mouth, some part of your brain may be
going "Uh Oh"...
;)
Scott
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of CCIE
KH49279
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 7:28 PM
To: 'Brian McGahan'; caccamucca@hotmail.com
Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: OT RE: InternetworkExpert Question
Brian,
Well put! I would like to reiterate the "asking yourself" part. Personal
honesty and integrity came to the top of my mind when reading this post.
Take it to the extreme, would you risk your career or your life on "I think
I know this stuff pretty darn well" or would you rather take the same chance
when you can HONESTLY SAY "I know this, let me show you."
Now, I have yet to attempt the lab, I will be doing so in January. I have
taught quite a bit in my past lives though, and I find that two things
typically trip people up in this field. The first is simply comprehending
what it is you are trying to accomplish, the second is knowing the
technologies to accomplish the task. The latter always seems to get confused
with understanding the technology. For the most part we all understand these
technologies and how they are used. But most do not KNOW these technologies.
- Do you understand comprehensively what it is you are trying to
accomplish? (requirements)
- Do you KNOW in detail your options for completing this requirement,
and further more what constraints exist? (knowing the technologies, NOT
understanding)
Another way to put it is to address the repeated questions we see on this
forum regarding how to advertsie loopback interfaces as /24 in OSPF. We all
by now have seen this question a number of times, and I am sure it will
surface sometime again in the future. The point is we all see the answer on
what to configure to do this make this happen. But how many of us could
write a short essay response in 15 minutes or less on why these
configuration options do what they do? How about other interface types, and
say neighbor relationships? (I am not bagging on anyone here, so please let
the flames disperse)
As Bruce, Val, and Bob so eliquently put it in the NMC courses , and just
about every piece of material that comes out of NMC shows this, the two key
points are understanding what it is you need to accomplish, and "KNOW THY
OPTIONS."
We have all undoubtedbly seen a number of postings with various tips and
hints to make the "next attempt" more succesful than the previous. I would
argue that when it comes to the raw CCIE lab (setting aside nerves,
organization, and all the other deamons we all get to deal with when going
through this particularly tough journey) KNOWING how and when to deploy a
technology, and your various options for deploying that technology will give
you the edge you need. I had an instructor put it too me another way, "make
sure you are at a point where your fingers know what to do so you don't have
to think about it too much."
I am sure reading comprehension and truly understanding the questions at
hand come into play, but I personally entered into this journey with the
attitude of if I KNOW the material to the point of just how Brian stated
"when I can turn around and explain it to someone else in my own words
without any type of teaching aid (notes, slides, etc)" then I know I have a
fighting chance. Once that is complete and you have a solid grip on the
technology, do a few labs in notepad. See how close you can come to the
outcome
Personally, my dog probably knows more about becoming a CCIE than most
people. Not because my dog is so smart, she is my audience during
teaching-training days. Like a fool, I stand in my ex-dining room (now CCIE
LAB Study Central) and white board something that I just learned or I am
trying to reinforce, not once, not twice, but until I am comfortable to take
that same conversation with someone that actually has a clue to this stuff.
I have several ex-colleagues that are studying for CCNA, and CCNP, they make
a great audience too, and it benefits all.
I know this is a longer than usual note. I hope some of this helps at least
one person...
Wayne
PETA Notice: No dogs were hurt during the course of my CCIE studies.
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
Brian McGahan
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 5:18 PM
To: caccamucca@hotmail.com
Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: RE: InternetworkExpert Question
> Let's say I'm able to complete 3 lab scenerios a week for next 6
weeks,
> which labs should I attempt out of 30 available labs?
Different scenarios offer a different cross section of topics within
the scope of the exam. This is typically true of any vendor's
products, Internetwork Expert included. Instead of focusing on how
much content you can go through, focus on how well you absorb the material.
I once had a student who bragged that they had gone through hundreds
of labs from all sorts of different sources. However, this individual
repeatedly failed the lab exam because although they had done lots of labs,
they didn't understand why the answers were as they were.
Your goal should be to understand the technologies covered within the scope
of the lab exam. If you attain this understanding then passing the exam
will come as a natural byproduct.
From my experience as an instructor I find that I only truly
understand a concept, whether it is CCIE related or not, when I can turn
around and explain it to someone else in my own words without any type of
teaching aid (notes, slides, etc). While your learning style may be
different, that plateau of knowledge remains the same.
If there are still doubts in your mind as to *why* a technology
works the way it does, those are the areas you need to tackle first
before even considering going the lab. In a Q&A session with Bill
Parkhurst he essentially said that reason most people fail the lab is a lack
of knowledge. It seems that this fact would be obvious, but in my
experience candidates fail to ask themselves where they lack knowledge.
What topics in your previous lab attempts gave you trouble? (FYI rhetorical
question) Have you truly gone through these topics step by step and figured
out the why behind them? In my opinion these type of factors should play
more into your study plan than a timeline should.
HTH,
Brian McGahan, CCIE #8593
bmcgahan@internetworkexpert.com
Internetwork Expert, Inc.
http://www.InternetworkExpert.com
Toll Free: 877-224-8987 x 705
Outside US: 775-826-4344 x 705
24/7 Support: http://forum.internetworkexpert.com
Live Chat: http://www.internetworkexpert.com/chat/
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
Of
> Olopade Olorunloba
> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 4:37 PM
> To: 'Gary'
> Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: RE: InternetworkExpert Question
>
> For you it might not be an issue, but being about to try the CCIE for
the
> first time, one of the nagging question is "Have I covered enough?"
That I
> think is group study question.
>
> Regards.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gary [mailto:cisco.wizard@virgin.net]
> Sent: 27 October 2005 06:12
> To: Olopade Olorunloba
> Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: Re: InternetworkExpert Question
>
> Why the hell are there all these bloody questions about commercial
labs on
> groupstudy? Dont they have a Q and A on their website for subscribers?
>
> Thoughts?
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Olopade Olorunloba" <lolopade@ipnxnigeria.net>
> To: <swm@emanon.com>; "'cacca mucca'" <caccamucca@hotmail.com>;
> <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> Cc: <comserv@groupstudy.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 2:03 PM
> Subject: RE: InternetworkExpert Question
>
>
> > Yeah, but frankly, do you think the challenge labs, in IPExpert and
the
> old
> > Hellocomputers
> >
> > Too easy?
> > Easy?
> > are hard enough?
> > Just hard enough?
> > Damn to difficult?
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Scott Morris [mailto:swm@emanon.com]
> > Sent: 26 October 2005 21:47
> > To: 'Olopade Olorunloba'; 'cacca mucca'; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > Cc: comserv@groupstudy.com
> > Subject: RE: InternetworkExpert Question
> >
> > For Service Provider lab? I believe the only options you have on
the
> market
> > right now are Ipexpert (3.0 coming in December) and TriNet (which
used
> to
> be
> > HelloComputers, and I have no idea on what, if any, version they're
> on)...
> >
> > So the choices are limited. But there's always the DocCD and a sick
> sense
> > of humor that you can always generate your own! ;)
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Olopade Olorunloba [mailto:lolopade@ipnxnigeria.net]
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 4:28 PM
> > To: 'Scott Morris'; 'cacca mucca'; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > Cc: comserv@groupstudy.com
> > Subject: RE: InternetworkExpert Question
> >
> > Hmmmmmmm, hard ones.
> >
> > Which labs (SP) would you consider as hard?
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
Of
> > Scott Morris
> > Sent: 26 October 2005 18:31
> > To: 'cacca mucca'; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > Cc: comserv@groupstudy.com
> > Subject: RE: InternetworkExpert Question
> >
> > I'm not with InternetworkExpert... I work with Ipexpert... But I
won't
> > hold it against you! (grin)
> >
> > So while I can't offer any opinion on their labs or numbers, I would
say
> > that if you know if your own weak areas in technology, I'd work on
them.
> If
> > you have all the technology stuff down already, then I would
concentrate
> on
> > your knowledge of the DocCD, and pick some labs to go through (hard
> ones,
> > but perhaps ones you've already done) and make sure you understand
WHY
> > everything was done a particular way in the solutions.
> >
> > The thought process is the most important thing you can work on!
That
> an
> > interpreting what is being asked, but the proctors are there to help
> with
> > that. If you can understand what your router is thinking and WHY at
any
> > point, then that's the best part that will help you on your exam,
> > particularly if you run into any problems!
> >
> > Cheers, and good luck!
> >
> > Scott
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: cacca mucca [mailto:caccamucca@hotmail.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 1:27 PM
> > To: swm@emanon.com; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > Cc: comserv@groupstudy.com
> > Subject: InternetworkExpert Question
> >
> > Hi Scott and the members of Group Study,
> >
> > With 6 weeks out of taking my 4th attempt at CCIE Lab R&S, I have a
> > question.
> >
> > Let's say I'm able to complete 3 lab scenerios a week for next 6
weeks,
> > which labs should I attempt out of 30 available labs?
> >
> > Put in another way, what 18 labs would you recommend? I'll also be
> taking
> > your mock lab few weeks out.
> >
> > TIA
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's
> FREE!
> > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
> >
> >
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