From: Administrator (Administrator@subfighter.ca)
Date: Fri Sep 02 2005 - 07:42:29 GMT-3
Well I for one failed my first attempt. But I thought I did very well.
Went back and re thought everything I did only to find out I did NOT know it
all. I made some stoopid mistakes that caused me to fail. And thats that,
I was not ready.
I went again about 4 weeks later. My 2nd attempt showed me that I was
REALLY not prepared. I got sh Kicked. Maybe it was burn out, maybe not.
At any rate, I didnt deserve to pass that time, and I sure as heck didnt.
Maybe my third attempt will be the one. I tell you this, walking away and
coming back has allowed me to see things a little more clearly. To
understand things a little more clearly.
Maybe I will never get it. But I am farther ahead than I was two years ago.
-----Original Message-----
From: Dillon Yang [mailto:dillony@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 11:27 AM
To: swm@emanon.com
Cc: cciein2006@yahoo.com; ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: Re: Three Test Minimum?
High priest, my intention is always not the paper or the number, though I
am more diligent than others. Maybe you are the closest messager to our
Lord, please send my message for truth.
My purpose is to find out the reason why CCIE is the most valuable paper
in the market, not to discourage the comrades. We all love the cisco's
routers, it dose not mean that we'd like to suffer from torturing by CCIE
PROGRAM. I believe that all are induced by the mysterious routing in
routers, but stumbled by the anonymous grading. I'd like to discovery the
unknown thing in grading, meanwhile, I wish the comrades prospering in
MASTERING the cisco technology, of course, under your guidance.
But you have no comment about the same ratio between the income of cisco
and the number of CCIE.
And you may not notice the cost of a exam for the comrades. From the
"Analyst 2000"by Britannica Inc., we can figure out the cost for the
comrades all over the world. Look this:
Place gnp/c workmonth
India 1580 9.5
China 3330 4.5
Brazil 6340 2.4
UAE(GNP/capita) 17500 0.9
Australia 19870 0.8
Belgium 22390 0.7
Japan 23420 0.6
US 28020 0.5
The "gnp/c " is the GNP per capita purchasing power parity(USD) in 1996.
The "workmonth" equals 1250/"gnp/c"*12months. Now you know, a same lab exam
costs an Indian 9.5 months of labour or an American half a month. The datas
are old, but they should not be dramatically changed.
Maybe you say the localization of the price will cause the American
candidates shoal into the lower-earning place, yes, it maybe. But now, the
developing places suffer from the unequal treatment.
Who considers the endeavors of the comrades?
Who mars the profits of the comrades?
regards
dillon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Morris" <swm@emanon.com>
To: "'Dillon Yang'" <dillony@gmail.com>; <cciein2006@yahoo.com>;
<ccielab@groupstudy.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 10:22 PM
Subject: RE: Three Test Minimum?
> Dude, if you spent half the time working on the CCIE lab itself, things
> would be easier. :)
>
> It's basic business marketing though to realize that the more people you
> have out in the workplace certified and/or capable/comfortable with your
> products, the more you will sell. Microsoft did this approach a long time
> ago. They had some difficulties, but the market still is there. Novell
> tried enhancing things a little too late to help them much.
>
> But if you have happy people out in the field, employed and comfortable on
> your product line, it's not difficult to see the market benefit here.
>
> So, this is a lesson in belaboring the obvious. Now, what are your trying
> to get at, and does it affect anyone movement towards their goal?
>
> Scott
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> Dillon Yang
> Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 7:27 AM
> To: cciein2006@yahoo.com; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: Re: Three Test Minimum?
>
> 1. Questionable grading
> So many candidates in the list questioned the CCIE lab exam, so, lets
> analyze it now.
>
> 2. Indubitable facts
> 2.1. the Quarterly Income Statement of cisco(values in millions),
> $5,926 7/31/2004
> $5,971 10/30/2004
> $6,062 1/29/2005
> $6,187 4/30/2005
> http://quotes.nasdaq.com/asp/MasterDataEntry.asp?page=full
> symbol="csco"
> 2.2. The Total of Routing and Switching CCIEs(valid):
> 11228 8/1/2004
> 11434 11/1/2004
> 11629 2/1/2005
> 11701 5/1/2005
> 12007 8/1/2005
> http://www.cisco.com/web/learning/le3/ccie/certified_ccies/worldwide.html
>
>
> 2.3. Gold Certification Requirements: One additional CCIE for each $40
> million in annual Cisco revenue(4 CCIE minimum, Add 1 per $40 million in
> revenue )
>
http://www.cisco.com/en/US/learning/le3/le2/le37/le10/learning_certification
> _type_home.html
>
>
> 2.4. There is 10 lab exam location all over the world.
> http://www.cisco.com/web/learning/le3/ccie/rs/scheduling_lab_exam.html
> 2.5. The nominal increase is 100 CCIE per month. The number should be
> 100.8 from 7/14/2004 to 5/13/2005, that is 1008/10month.For the other
> track's
> sake, 100 is ok.
> R&S ccie number date
> 14645 5/13/2005
> 14551 4/7/2005
> 14351 2/19/2005
> 14251 12/9/2004
> 14063 11/8/2004
> 13949 10/18/2004
> 13746 8/2/2004
> 13637 7/14/2004
> http://www.netmasterclass.net & http://www.cisco.com/"CCIE Verification
> Tool"
> 2.6. There are many trick in real lab exam.(personal experiences)
> 2.7. The granularity of grading is coarse. Since there are a lot of
> noticeable points in a subsection, its score always between 2 and 4.
> (personal experiences)
>
> 3. Inferences:
> 3.1. There is relation between the number of CCIE and the Income of
> CISCO. The date 8/1/2004 and the date 7/31/2004 are approximately equal,
> then we have a compatible point that have a 11228 and a 5926. So, the 6187
> has a ratio of 1.044043 to 5926 and the 11701 has a ratio of 1.042127 to
> 11228. This means that in the 9 months the increases of the CCIE number
> and
> the Income are the same stationary speed, that is about 0.47 percents per
> month on average.
> 3.2. There is a minimum workload of a CCIE complied by cisco. Based on
> 2.1 and 2.2 and 3.1, we can figure out it by the Quarterly Income
> Statement
> of cisco and the number of CCIE, for example, it equals 5926 millions USD
> per 11228 CCIE, i.e. about 5800 USD/CCIE/day. Can we guess that if you can
> FINISH the configuration of 5800 USDs of devices for a certain complexity
> in
>
> a working day, then you are eligible to be a CCIE? In other words, a CCIE
> thats annual income is 100K USD earns 274 USD per day, that means the
> maintaining fee for cisco products is 274/5800, i.e. 4.72%. If annual 60K,
> then 2.83%.
> 3.3. There is a maximum workload of a CCIE complied by cisco. Based on
> 2.3, we can figure out 40 million per year is 109589 USD/CCIE/day. i.e.
> cisco will not allow any CCIE to finish his job more than 110K USD in a
> working day even if he believes he can.
> 3.4. There is stationary increase in number of CCIE. Based on 2.2 and
> 3.1, we can figure out the average increase(excluding the invalid) per
> month
>
> is 11228*0.47%, i.e. 52.6 CCIEs in recent months. That is need by the
> increase of Income.
> 3.5. The pass rate is about 0.08333. The minimum of seats is 4 and the
> maximum is 16, say, the average is 8 for the 10 location. The proctors
> work
> 5 days per week and the usage of seats may be 70%, then there are
> 8*10*(30*5/7)*0.7 seats per month, i.e. 1200 candidates per month(We have
> no
>
> knowledge about the actual candidates per month, it may be from
> 4seats*10*30*5/7 to 10seats*10*30*5/7 ). So, based on 2.5 and this, the
> pass
>
> rate is 100/1200, i.e. 8.33%. Or between 100/857 and 100/2142, i.e. 11.7%
> and 4.7%. And, the actual number of candidates for CCIE is unknown.
> 3.6. Obviously, a fine granular grading will figure your image well.
> Why
>
> not do you select 640*480 resolution for your screen, instead, you prefer
> the 1024*768, or more? Because the latter has more detailed information
> that
>
> can please you. So, based 2.7, the coarse granular grading neglects your
> endeavor on many dimensions to lower your scores.
> 3.7. The more tricks, the more failures. In probability theory, say,
> the
>
> probability for you to make a successful hit is PT(1) equals 0.95, then
> the
> continuous two successful hit is PT(2) equals 0.95^2 equals 0.90, the
> PT(3)
> equals 0.86, the PT(5) equals 0.77. For CCIE, you fail now. For example,
> 1st,you are asked to make a OSPF virtual-link between R2 and R3, its so
> simple and you have probability of 95% that makes you happy.
> Then, 2nd, the R3 reaches the area 0 and area 23, the R2 reaches the area
> 23
>
> and the area 2. Now you are not asked to do OSPF-VL, but it implies this.
> The probability changes to 90% but you still happy.
> Then 3rd, the R3 and R2 reach the area 0 and there is no routing protocol
> between them. You know the default route is not allowed, the probability
> descends to 86% now, but you finally done it by PBR.
> As far as OK, 4th, the R3 and R2 reach the area 0 and there is no routing
> protocol between them, you are not allowed to use default route and
> policy-based routing. Now the probability is just 81%, God help you, there
> is a tunnel to fit in with this.
> If, 5th, the R3 and R2 reach the area 0 and there is no routing protocol
> between them, you are not allowed to use default route and policy-based
> routing, no new address can be added. The probability sunk into 77%, you
> realize actually that the cisco' market is shrinking and the CCIE is more
> than what it need, the only thing you can do is stalking out of the exam
> room without a glance, or you have to pray like this:
> Our Lord which art in San Jose, Hallowed be thy name. Thy market come, Thy
> will be done in ipv6, as it is in ipv4. Give us this day our final number.
> And forgive us our Lab negligence, as we forgive your IOS negligence. And
> lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from trap: For thine is the
> market, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
>
> My conclusion is the CCIE lab exam grading has been manipulating to be fit
> in with the Income of products. Open your eyes when you take part in the
> lab
>
> exam. Does cisco need so many CCIE? Can the market of cisco support a 100K
> salary? Would cisco like to pay a maintaining fee of 4.72% for its routers
> and switches?
>
> Rational reply and opposite opinion will be appreciated. Offensive one
> will
> be rejected.
>
> regards
> dillon
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <cciein2006@yahoo.com>
> To: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 9:38 PM
> Subject: Three Test Minimum?
>
>
>>I find it kind of odd that most of the CCIE's on this board and the one's
>>I
>
>>know personally have all taken the test a minimum of three times before
>>passing.
>> Being that Cisco is making $1250 a pop (not including the revenue from
>> written exams and books) and with the high failure rate being part of the
>> allure of attaining CCIE status, could Cisco be purposely failing people
>> on their first few attempts?
>>
>> _______________________________________________________________________
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>
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