From: dillon yang (gzdillon@hotmail.com)
Date: Fri Feb 18 2005 - 23:36:45 GMT-3
Scott,
Yes, the urgent affair is getting the cert, but you should be gentle as the another scott.
best regards
dillon
----- Original Message -----
From: "cclab" <cclab@optonline.net>
To: "Scott Morris" <swm@emanon.com>; <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2005 12:08 AM
Subject: Re: Greed is one of the deadly sins__Re: Testkink and such
> I never chime in on this type of stuff but ...
>
> Scott is correct on this one.
> This is no place to debate the ethical / social implications of
> certifications.
> As I type this, I have to laugh.
> Who spends there time thinking about this kind of garbage.
>
> Join the peace core if you want a sense of justice in the world.
> Otherwise, go get the cert if you want it and stop the nonsense.
>
> Scott O'Donnell
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Scott Morris" <swm@emanon.com>
> To: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 10:47 AM
> Subject: RE: Greed is one of the deadly sins__Re: Testkink and such
>
>
> > And now we have taken a large step towards the absurd.
> >
> > Scott
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> > dillon yang
> > Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 4:59 AM
> > To: Rick
> > Cc: Group Study
> > Subject: Greed is one of the deadly sins__Re: Testkink and such
> >
> > =======================================
> >
> > Greed is one of the deadly sins.
> > TestKing may be the 100% greed.
> > NLI, NMC and so on may be the 50% greed.
> > Cisco itself may be the 20% greed.
> >
> > =======================================
> >
> > Why?
> > Cisco generated a certification like CCIE just for itself's products,
> not
> > for BAY that made the first switch, not for 3com, and so on. A CCIE is
> just
> > like a watcher for Cisco products. Since, Cisco should train the
> candidates
> > on the cuff for its partners and clients! Now Cisco requires the
> candidates
> > spend a lots of dollars and valuable leisures on acquiring it that is not
> > equitable like GRE for some REREAD reason. So, Cisco has taken valuable
> > societal resources(including the failed candidates) for its private
> > purpose. The man that got CCIE must be very smart, but is still not
> eligible
> > to take part in the process of making routers and switches, and is not
> > eligible to share the free drinks in Cisco's office.
> > Cisco displaced its responsibility with the society, that should be
> > fulfilled by a vendor, then it is something about greed. So is 3com, and
> so
> > on.
> > Since Cisco declare that "CCIE is not a training based certification",
> > then NLI, NMC and so on are somethings about greed, too.
> > TestKing is JUST exceed what is proper.
> > IMHO, I think the original intention of CCIE is for rewarding the extra
> > experienced engineers, without courses, without guessing lab contents.
> > dillon
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Rick" <rick@iptool.net>
> > To: "Etchings, Jay" <EtchingsJ@ally.com>
> > Cc: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> > Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 8:24 AM
> > Subject: Re: Testkink and such
> >
> >
> > > I am curious to what you mean by the "cert game". Every thing I have
> read
> > > about in the past says Vendors actually lose money directly on the cert
> > > programs. Now, I will be the first to agree that they more than make up
> > > for it in reduced support cost and name recognition as a result of
> > > offering the certs. For example as a CCIE, I am more likely to purchase
> or
> > > recommend Cisco and I "should" be able to better troubleshoot Cisco
> > > products, reducing the amount of times I have to call support.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > There may come a day when any respected certification will require a
> > > > "hands on lab" Microsoft has already pondered this scenario. The
> vendors
> > > > make so much in the cert game; even if you cheat they still get their
> > > > money.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I think hands on exams would end all these sort of debates.
> > > >
> > > > Just my 2 cents,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Jay Etchings
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > > Jay Etchings
> > > >
> > > >
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