From: Tim Fletcher (groupstudy@fletchmail.net)
Date: Sat Sep 04 2004 - 12:39:47 GMT-3
I couldn't imagine a more pointless debate. I don't see where the number of
people that pass after a specific class has much of any bearing on
anything. What experience does the individual have? What else have they
done to study between the class and the lab? What other resources have they
used? Have they been to other classes? What if they've taken both classes;
who gets the credit?
I think you all do yourselfs a disservice by engaging in these petty arguments.
At 06:49 PM 9/3/2004, Wayne Lawson wrote:
> You guys just won't quit - will you? 24 IE's in a year?.....That's not
> the # we have, of
>course - it's the # you'd like this list - or potential clients to believe.
>
> I'll tell you what Brian, I'm going to back out of this thread and
> conversation. I know
>when my time is wasted. I've proven my point - several times! Have a
>great weekend!
>
>
>-----Original message-----
>From: "Brian Dennis" bdennis@internetworkexpert.com
>Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 18:42:19 -0400
>To: "Wayne Lawson" groupstudy@ipexpert.net
>Subject: RE: OT: bootcamps
>
> > Wayne,
> > That must mean your numbers are dropping since you only have 24
> > CCIE's in the last year or so. Why are your numbers dropping, increased
> > competition? ;-) I guess you're right, it is all in the way you look
> > at it. ;-)
> >
> > Brian Dennis, CCIE #2210 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security)
> > bdennis@internetworkexpert.com
> >
> > Internetwork Expert, Inc.
> > http://www.InternetworkExpert.com
> > Toll Free: 877-224-8987
> > Direct: 775-745-6404 (Outside the US and Canada)
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> > Wayne Lawson
> > Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 3:28 PM
> > To: Brian McGahan; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > Subject: RE: OT: bootcamps
> >
> > Brian,
> >
> > Well, actually - if you want to get technical - and use the Website as
> > validation....
> >
> > We've certified 203 IE's in 3 years (not 5) - Oh, and we'll be adding
> > 2 more this weekend. Our "Yearly Average" is 68 per year.
> >
> > You - Internetwork Expert have certified 64 (listed on your site) - in
> > a little over 1 year,
> > which means you certify (ON THE AVERAGE) 4 LESS CCIE's per year than us.
> > ;-)
> >
> > It's all in the way you look at it.....-grin-
> >
> >
> > -----Original message-----
> > From: "Brian McGahan" bmcgahan@internetworkexpert.com
> > Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 18:12:10 -0400
> > To: "Wayne Lawson" groupstudy@ipexpert.net
> > Subject: RE: OT: bootcamps
> >
> > > Hi Wayne,
> > >
> > > No problem, I don't mind you questioning my integrity in public.
> > > To clarify, I said "Internetwork Expert certifies more CCIEs than any
> > > other vendor on the market", referring to present tense. As you know,
> > > Brian Dennis and I have only been working on our collective efforts as
> > > Internetwork Expert for just one year now, so it does make sense that
> > > you should have collected more CCIEs in five years as we have in just
> > > one.
> > >
> > > However, as related to "certifies" (present tense), the proof is
> > > clearly in the numbers. If you look at the list on
> > > http://www.internetworkexpert.com/ you will clearly see that as of
> > today
> > > there are 61 names listed with CCIE numbers over the 13000. While the
> > > list on https://www.ipexpert.net/success/default.asp lists 24 names
> > with
> > > CCIE numbers over 13000.
> > >
> > > Wow, that's almost three times as much isn't it? ;)
> > >
> > > Brian McGahan, CCIE #8593
> > > bmcgahan@internetworkexpert.com
> > >
> > > Internetwork Expert, Inc.
> > > http://www.InternetworkExpert.com
> > > Toll Free: 877-224-8987 x 705
> > > Outside US: 775-826-4344 x 705
> > > 24/7 Support: http://forum.internetworkexpert.com
> > > Live Chat: http://www.internetworkexpert.com/chat/
> > >
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
> > > Of
> > > > Wayne Lawson
> > > > Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 4:23 PM
> > > > To: Brian McGahan; john matijevic; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > > > Subject: Re: OT: bootcamps
> > > >
> > > > Brian,
> > > >
> > > > I would have to agree with almost everything you say except,
> > > >
> > > > "Apparently this "hard work" approach works, as Internetwork
> > Expert
> > > > certifies
> > > > more CCIEs than any other vendor on the market."
> > > >
> > > > How can you justify this statement? The IE success story list is
> > > much
> > > > shorter than
> > > > the NMC list, NLI's list and our (IPexpert) list....Care to explain
> > > this
> > > > one, and back it
> > > > up, or is this another false statement you and your partner are
> > > attempting
> > > > to pass
> > > > off to members of this list? Sorry for "publicly" questioning your
> > > > honesty and accuracy
> > > > here, but this one just doesn't make sense.....
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original message-----
> > > > From: "Brian McGahan" bmcgahan@internetworkexpert.com
> > > > Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 17:07:01 -0400
> > > > To: "john matijevic" matijevi@bellsouth.net
> > > > Subject: OT: bootcamps
> > > >
> > > > > Hi John,
> > > > >
> > > > > Now that you are an "instructor", I'm honestly surprised
> to see
> > > > > that you think that pass rate of previous students will affect the
> > > > > success of future ones. I have been in the CCIE training industry
> > > for a
> > > > > number of years now, and have seen many methods (some more
> > > successful
> > > > > than others) of preparation. From my experience the one thing I
> > can
> > > > > tell you for sure is that it's very naive of a student,
> > instructor,
> > > > > training company, or whoever to think that there is a foolproof
> > > solution
> > > > > to passing the CCIE lab exam.
> > > > >
> > > > > At Internetwork Expert we never have, and never will,
> advertise
> > > > > a passing rate, or even dream of giving a guarantee that you will
> > > pass
> > > > > the exam after going through our program. As it clearly states on
> > > our
> > > > > website:
> > > > >
> > > > > "Passing the CCIE lab requires a culmination of hands on real
> > world
> > > > > experience, countless hours of self study, instructor-led
> > training,
> > > and
> > > > > unrelenting determination. Despite what some companies may have
> > you
> > > > > believe there is no magic product out there that will make you
> > pass
> > > the
> > > > > CCIE lab. If what you are looking for is an easy way out to
> > passing
> > > the
> > > > > CCIE lab exam IEWB-RS [our workbook] is not for you."
> > > > >
> > > > > What we at Internetwork Expert offer are simply tools for
> > > > > candidates to use as stepping stones in their preparation to get
> > > their
> > > > > level of knowledge to the point that they will pass the exam. In
> > > other
> > > > > words, if the student devotes the time to learning and
> > understanding
> > > the
> > > > > technologies as expressed in our products, passing the CCIE lab
> > exam
> > > > > will come naturally. Apparently this "hard work" approach works,
> > as
> > > > > Internetwork Expert certifies more CCIEs than any other vendor on
> > > the
> > > > > market.
> > > > >
> > > > > For example, the class that you attended with us,
> Internetwork
> > > > > Expert's CCIE Routing & Switching Mock Lab Workshop (IEW-RS), is
> > > > > advertised as being "...designed for students to solidify their
> > > existing
> > > > > knowledge, expose weaknesses, and fully prepare them as they lead
> > up
> > > to
> > > > > their CCIE R&S Lab Exam date. Students successfully completing
> > this
> > > > > course will be fully prepared for the CCIE Lab Exam." The key
> > words
> > > in
> > > > > this description are "existing knowledge" and "successfully
> > > completing
> > > > > this course". In your case, both Brian Dennis and I explained to
> > > you at
> > > > > the end of the week in a very nice way that you were not in fact
> > > ready
> > > > > to take the lab exam. Subsequently, you took and failed the lab
> > > exam
> > > > > the following week.
> > > > >
> > > > > As an instructor it is not my job to placate students into
> > > > > thinking that they understand a certain technology, or are ready
> > for
> > > the
> > > > > lab exam. By this accord, why would I falsely advertise a 100%
> > > passing
> > > > > rate, or guarantee that you will pass the exam, when in reality
> > the
> > > > > majority of candidates I see are in fact NOT sufficiently prepared
> > > for
> > > > > the exam. If they were then why would the failure rate of the
> > exam
> > > be
> > > > > so high? (roughly 75% of exam attempts result in failure). In
> > > previous
> > > > > cases I have seen institutes where they did in fact falsely
> > > advertise a
> > > > > 100% passing rate, and guaranteed passing of the exam. Needless
> > to
> > > say
> > > > > this institute lost a LOT of money when it was SUED by many
> > previous
> > > > > students on the premise of false advertising, after they
> > > subsequently
> > > > > failed the exam. If you think that ANY class can teach you all
> > the
> > > > > technologies needed to pass the lab exam in five days, you are
> > sadly
> > > > > mistaken.
> > > > >
> > > > > I also have to question your notion that since you "have very
> > > > > current CCIE only 3 months, and I took exam so many times, that I
> > > have
> > > > > very good idea of what exam is about. I don't waste your time
> > > studying
> > > > > material that won't be tested on". In other words what you're
> > > saying is
> > > > > don't bother sorting through all those CONCEPTS, let's just go
> > over
> > > the
> > > > > questions that are on the actual exam. Well I have news for you
> > > John,
> > > > > I've worked with many candidates have had DETAILED braindumps of
> > the
> > > > > actual exam they took, and still failed. You know why? Because
> > > they
> > > > > still don't understand the technology. All they learned is how to
> > > > > mindlessly put a configuration in, not unlike yourself from doing
> > > "over
> > > > > 200 labs" as you so often tout on the list.
> > > > >
> > > > > Next, I'd like to address your claim that since some
> instructors
> > > > > "got their ccie years ago" they are obsolete. Two individuals
> > come
> > > to
> > > > > mind when you mentioned this. You guessed it, Brian Dennis (CCIE
> > > #2210)
> > > > > and Scott Morris (CCIE #4713). Brian Dennis is *THE* most
> > brilliant
> > > > > engineer I have ever met. Having his CCIE for nearly 10 years
> > now,
> > > he
> > > > > has passed three CCIE lab exams in less attempts than it took you
> > to
> > > > > achieve your one. Scott Morris is one of the select few engineers
> > > in
> > > > > the world who has *FOUR* CCIEs. Sorry John, but your level of
> > > knowledge
> > > > > pales in comparison to either of these individuals.
> > > > >
> > > > > In conclusion John, I would suggest that you stop replying to
> > > > > every post on the list with "oh yeah I used that product and it
> > > sucked,
> > > > > but BTW you can attend my class via MSN messenger for a fraction
> > of
> > > the
> > > > > cost!" I for one am sick of all your negative comments and
> > personal
> > > > > attacks, as I'm sure many other people on this list are.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Sincerely,
> > > > >
> > > > > Brian McGahan, CCIE #8593
> > > > > bmcgahan@internetworkexpert.com
> > > > >
> > > > > Internetwork Expert, Inc.
> > > > > http://www.InternetworkExpert.com
> > > > > Toll Free: 877-224-8987 x 705
> > > > > Outside US: 775-826-4344 x 705
> > > > > 24/7 Support: http://forum.internetworkexpert.com
> > > > > Live Chat: http://www.internetworkexpert.com/chat/
> > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On
> > > Behalf
> > > > > Of
> > > > > > john matijevic
> > > > > > Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 12:57 PM
> > > > > > To: 'Joseph D. Phillips'; 'Eric Hoffman'
> > > > > > Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > > > > > Subject: RE: CCIE # 13843
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hello Eric,
> > > > > > Congratulations for passing the exam even though it took you 6
> > > times.
> > > > > I
> > > > > > had to take the exam 5 times to pass. I had a similar experience
> > > to
> > > > > you
> > > > > > I had purchased several workbooks, but I attended more than 1
> > boot
> > > > > camp.
> > > > > > I attended Netmaster and Internetworkexpert mock lab workshop as
> > > well
> > > > > as
> > > > > > the IPexpert audio boot camp. Even though I did not attend
> > > > > Cyscoexpert,
> > > > > > I did research them and felt that they were really overcharging.
> > > And
> > > > > > that they gave some students different prices than others, I
> > don't
> > > > > think
> > > > > > that is fair to do to customers. Also the big problem is with
> > the
> > > boot
> > > > > > camps, is that they don't tell you what there passing rate is.
> > > This to
> > > > > > me is very important factor, I want to know how many people pass
> > > after
> > > > > > attending the boot camp. It is a shame that you have to fail so
> > > many
> > > > > > times in order to pass like I did. I really can sympathize, the
> > > > > problem
> > > > > > with many of the boot camps out there and the workbook vendors
> > is
> > > that
> > > > > > they made there boot camp courses or workbooks years ago, and
> > they
> > > got
> > > > > > their ccie years ago(look at their CCIE numbers), so they try
> > and
> > > > > update
> > > > > > their workbooks but the problem is that the original topologies,
> > > tasks
> > > > > > etc, are still left over. Yes I purchased IPexpert as well,
> > again
> > > my
> > > > > > feelings are that those labs were originated years ago, and they
> > > did
> > > > > not
> > > > > > completely rewrite the entire book, even though they have now
> > > proctor
> > > > > > guide and have several new labs. I am very proud to start my
> > > course,
> > > > > > because I have very current CCIE only 3 months, and I took exam
> > so
> > > > > many
> > > > > > times, that I have very good idea of what exam is about. I don't
> > > waste
> > > > > > your time studying material that won't be tested on, and more
> > > > > > importantly I am not going to overcharge you, like some of the
> > > other
> > > > > > boot camps. Good Luck in your career endeavors as well!!!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sincerely,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > John Matijevic, CCIE #13254, MCSE, CNE, CCEA
> > > > > > CEO
> > > > > > IgorTek Inc.
> > > > > > 151 Crandon Blvd. #402
> > > > > > Key Biscayne, FL 33149
> > > > > > Hablo Espanol
> > > > > > 305-321-6232
> > > > > > http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-CCIE
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On
> > > Behalf
> > > > > Of
> > > > > > Joseph D. Phillips
> > > > > > Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 11:49 AM
> > > > > > To: Eric Hoffman
> > > > > > Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > > > > > Subject: Re: CCIE # 13843
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Very good. Congratulations, from a boob that's flunked 4x. :)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
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