From: Scott Morris (swm@emanon.com)
Date: Sat Sep 04 2004 - 11:36:55 GMT-3
Not that I really want this to continue one way or another... But just
because someone has gotten back in touch with you about their number and you
have it on a list does not necessarily indicate anything.
In statistics, we would call this a 'margin of error' or something looking
at the accuracy of the numbers. There's a large margin of error, because
for many people, the last thing they may think about after recovering from
the stupor of passing their exam is sending an extra e-mail to a training
company that they passed. Some do, some don't.
I'm really not wanting to get too much into this, but kind of along the same
lines that you had stated nobody should guarantee passing the exam (because
nothing is for certain), the same logic should apply to none of us
purporting to have certified (in whatever tense) more IE's than anyone on
the planet.
You guys are great, I have no doubt. I tell students all the time that if
they don't want to sift through all the BS on this list, that there are a
select few names they should pay attention to and your names are on that
list. But... Let's not make mountains where there are simply a collection
of hills.
Scott Morris, CCIE4 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service Provider) #4713, CISSP,
JNCIP, et al.
IPExpert CCIE Program Manager
IPExpert Sr. Technical Instructor
swm@emanon.com/smorris@ipexpert.net
http://www.ipexpert.net
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
Brian McGahan
Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 6:11 PM
To: Wayne Lawson; ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: RE: OT: bootcamps
Hi Wayne,
No problem, I don't mind you questioning my integrity in public.
To clarify, I said "Internetwork Expert certifies more CCIEs than any other
vendor on the market", referring to present tense. As you know, Brian
Dennis and I have only been working on our collective efforts as
Internetwork Expert for just one year now, so it does make sense that you
should have collected more CCIEs in five years as we have in just one.
However, as related to "certifies" (present tense), the proof is
clearly in the numbers. If you look at the list on
http://www.internetworkexpert.com/ you will clearly see that as of today
there are 61 names listed with CCIE numbers over the 13000. While the list
on https://www.ipexpert.net/success/default.asp lists 24 names with CCIE
numbers over 13000.
Wow, that's almost three times as much isn't it? ;)
Brian McGahan, CCIE #8593
bmcgahan@internetworkexpert.com
Internetwork Expert, Inc.
http://www.InternetworkExpert.com
Toll Free: 877-224-8987 x 705
Outside US: 775-826-4344 x 705
24/7 Support: http://forum.internetworkexpert.com
Live Chat: http://www.internetworkexpert.com/chat/
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
Of
> Wayne Lawson
> Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 4:23 PM
> To: Brian McGahan; john matijevic; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: Re: OT: bootcamps
>
> Brian,
>
> I would have to agree with almost everything you say except,
>
> "Apparently this "hard work" approach works, as Internetwork Expert
> certifies more CCIEs than any other vendor on the market."
>
> How can you justify this statement? The IE success story list is
much
> shorter than
> the NMC list, NLI's list and our (IPexpert) list....Care to explain
this
> one, and back it
> up, or is this another false statement you and your partner are
attempting
> to pass
> off to members of this list? Sorry for "publicly" questioning your
> honesty and accuracy here, but this one just doesn't make sense.....
>
>
> -----Original message-----
> From: "Brian McGahan" bmcgahan@internetworkexpert.com
> Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 17:07:01 -0400
> To: "john matijevic" matijevi@bellsouth.net
> Subject: OT: bootcamps
>
> > Hi John,
> >
> > Now that you are an "instructor", I'm honestly surprised to see
> > that you think that pass rate of previous students will affect the
> > success of future ones. I have been in the CCIE training industry
for a
> > number of years now, and have seen many methods (some more
successful
> > than others) of preparation. From my experience the one thing I can
> > tell you for sure is that it's very naive of a student, instructor,
> > training company, or whoever to think that there is a foolproof
solution
> > to passing the CCIE lab exam.
> >
> > At Internetwork Expert we never have, and never will, advertise a
> > passing rate, or even dream of giving a guarantee that you will
pass
> > the exam after going through our program. As it clearly states on
our
> > website:
> >
> > "Passing the CCIE lab requires a culmination of hands on real world
> > experience, countless hours of self study, instructor-led training,
and
> > unrelenting determination. Despite what some companies may have you
> > believe there is no magic product out there that will make you pass
the
> > CCIE lab. If what you are looking for is an easy way out to passing
the
> > CCIE lab exam IEWB-RS [our workbook] is not for you."
> >
> > What we at Internetwork Expert offer are simply tools for
> > candidates to use as stepping stones in their preparation to get
their
> > level of knowledge to the point that they will pass the exam. In
other
> > words, if the student devotes the time to learning and understanding
the
> > technologies as expressed in our products, passing the CCIE lab exam
> > will come naturally. Apparently this "hard work" approach works, as
> > Internetwork Expert certifies more CCIEs than any other vendor on
the
> > market.
> >
> > For example, the class that you attended with us, Internetwork
> > Expert's CCIE Routing & Switching Mock Lab Workshop (IEW-RS), is
> > advertised as being "...designed for students to solidify their
existing
> > knowledge, expose weaknesses, and fully prepare them as they lead up
to
> > their CCIE R&S Lab Exam date. Students successfully completing this
> > course will be fully prepared for the CCIE Lab Exam." The key words
in
> > this description are "existing knowledge" and "successfully
completing
> > this course". In your case, both Brian Dennis and I explained to
you at
> > the end of the week in a very nice way that you were not in fact
ready
> > to take the lab exam. Subsequently, you took and failed the lab
exam
> > the following week.
> >
> > As an instructor it is not my job to placate students into thinking
> > that they understand a certain technology, or are ready for
the
> > lab exam. By this accord, why would I falsely advertise a 100%
passing
> > rate, or guarantee that you will pass the exam, when in reality the
> > majority of candidates I see are in fact NOT sufficiently prepared
for
> > the exam. If they were then why would the failure rate of the exam
be
> > so high? (roughly 75% of exam attempts result in failure). In
previous
> > cases I have seen institutes where they did in fact falsely
advertise a
> > 100% passing rate, and guaranteed passing of the exam. Needless to
say
> > this institute lost a LOT of money when it was SUED by many previous
> > students on the premise of false advertising, after they
subsequently
> > failed the exam. If you think that ANY class can teach you all the
> > technologies needed to pass the lab exam in five days, you are sadly
> > mistaken.
> >
> > I also have to question your notion that since you "have very
> > current CCIE only 3 months, and I took exam so many times, that I
have
> > very good idea of what exam is about. I don't waste your time
studying
> > material that won't be tested on". In other words what you're
saying is
> > don't bother sorting through all those CONCEPTS, let's just go over
the
> > questions that are on the actual exam. Well I have news for you
John,
> > I've worked with many candidates have had DETAILED braindumps of the
> > actual exam they took, and still failed. You know why? Because
they
> > still don't understand the technology. All they learned is how to
> > mindlessly put a configuration in, not unlike yourself from doing
"over
> > 200 labs" as you so often tout on the list.
> >
> > Next, I'd like to address your claim that since some instructors
> > "got their ccie years ago" they are obsolete. Two individuals come
to
> > mind when you mentioned this. You guessed it, Brian Dennis (CCIE
#2210)
> > and Scott Morris (CCIE #4713). Brian Dennis is *THE* most brilliant
> > engineer I have ever met. Having his CCIE for nearly 10 years now,
he
> > has passed three CCIE lab exams in less attempts than it took you to
> > achieve your one. Scott Morris is one of the select few engineers
in
> > the world who has *FOUR* CCIEs. Sorry John, but your level of
knowledge
> > pales in comparison to either of these individuals.
> >
> > In conclusion John, I would suggest that you stop replying to every
> > post on the list with "oh yeah I used that product and it
sucked,
> > but BTW you can attend my class via MSN messenger for a fraction of
the
> > cost!" I for one am sick of all your negative comments and personal
> > attacks, as I'm sure many other people on this list are.
> >
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > Brian McGahan, CCIE #8593
> > bmcgahan@internetworkexpert.com
> >
> > Internetwork Expert, Inc.
> > http://www.InternetworkExpert.com
> > Toll Free: 877-224-8987 x 705
> > Outside US: 775-826-4344 x 705
> > 24/7 Support: http://forum.internetworkexpert.com
> > Live Chat: http://www.internetworkexpert.com/chat/
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On
Behalf
> > Of
> > > john matijevic
> > > Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 12:57 PM
> > > To: 'Joseph D. Phillips'; 'Eric Hoffman'
> > > Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > > Subject: RE: CCIE # 13843
> > >
> > > Hello Eric,
> > > Congratulations for passing the exam even though it took you 6
times.
> > I
> > > had to take the exam 5 times to pass. I had a similar experience
to
> > you
> > > I had purchased several workbooks, but I attended more than 1 boot
> > camp.
> > > I attended Netmaster and Internetworkexpert mock lab workshop as
well
> > as
> > > the IPexpert audio boot camp. Even though I did not attend
> > Cyscoexpert,
> > > I did research them and felt that they were really overcharging.
And
> > > that they gave some students different prices than others, I don't
> > think
> > > that is fair to do to customers. Also the big problem is with the
boot
> > > camps, is that they don't tell you what there passing rate is.
This to
> > > me is very important factor, I want to know how many people pass
after
> > > attending the boot camp. It is a shame that you have to fail so
many
> > > times in order to pass like I did. I really can sympathize, the
> > problem
> > > with many of the boot camps out there and the workbook vendors is
that
> > > they made there boot camp courses or workbooks years ago, and they
got
> > > their ccie years ago(look at their CCIE numbers), so they try and
> > update
> > > their workbooks but the problem is that the original topologies,
tasks
> > > etc, are still left over. Yes I purchased IPexpert as well, again
my
> > > feelings are that those labs were originated years ago, and they
did
> > not
> > > completely rewrite the entire book, even though they have now
proctor
> > > guide and have several new labs. I am very proud to start my
course,
> > > because I have very current CCIE only 3 months, and I took exam so
> > many
> > > times, that I have very good idea of what exam is about. I don't
waste
> > > your time studying material that won't be tested on, and more
> > > importantly I am not going to overcharge you, like some of the
other
> > > boot camps. Good Luck in your career endeavors as well!!!
> > >
> > > Sincerely,
> > >
> > > John Matijevic, CCIE #13254, MCSE, CNE, CCEA CEO IgorTek Inc.
> > > 151 Crandon Blvd. #402
> > > Key Biscayne, FL 33149
> > > Hablo Espanol
> > > 305-321-6232
> > > http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-CCIE
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On
Behalf
> > Of
> > > Joseph D. Phillips
> > > Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 11:49 AM
> > > To: Eric Hoffman
> > > Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > > Subject: Re: CCIE # 13843
> > >
> > > Very good. Congratulations, from a boob that's flunked 4x. :)
> > >
> > >
> >
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.4 : Fri Oct 01 2004 - 15:00:36 GMT-3