From: Wayne Lawson (groupstudy@ipexpert.net)
Date: Fri Sep 03 2004 - 19:28:03 GMT-3
Brian,
Well, actually - if you want to get technical - and use the Website as validation....
We've certified 203 IE's in 3 years (not 5) - Oh, and we'll be adding 2 more this weekend. Our "Yearly Average" is 68 per year.
You - Internetwork Expert have certified 64 (listed on your site) - in a little over 1 year,
which means you certify (ON THE AVERAGE) 4 LESS CCIE's per year than us. ;-)
It's all in the way you look at it.....-grin-
-----Original message-----
From: "Brian McGahan" bmcgahan@internetworkexpert.com
Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 18:12:10 -0400
To: "Wayne Lawson" groupstudy@ipexpert.net
Subject: RE: OT: bootcamps
> Hi Wayne,
>
> No problem, I don't mind you questioning my integrity in public.
> To clarify, I said "Internetwork Expert certifies more CCIEs than any
> other vendor on the market", referring to present tense. As you know,
> Brian Dennis and I have only been working on our collective efforts as
> Internetwork Expert for just one year now, so it does make sense that
> you should have collected more CCIEs in five years as we have in just
> one.
>
> However, as related to "certifies" (present tense), the proof is
> clearly in the numbers. If you look at the list on
> http://www.internetworkexpert.com/ you will clearly see that as of today
> there are 61 names listed with CCIE numbers over the 13000. While the
> list on https://www.ipexpert.net/success/default.asp lists 24 names with
> CCIE numbers over 13000.
>
> Wow, that's almost three times as much isn't it? ;)
>
> Brian McGahan, CCIE #8593
> bmcgahan@internetworkexpert.com
>
> Internetwork Expert, Inc.
> http://www.InternetworkExpert.com
> Toll Free: 877-224-8987 x 705
> Outside US: 775-826-4344 x 705
> 24/7 Support: http://forum.internetworkexpert.com
> Live Chat: http://www.internetworkexpert.com/chat/
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
> Of
> > Wayne Lawson
> > Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 4:23 PM
> > To: Brian McGahan; john matijevic; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > Subject: Re: OT: bootcamps
> >
> > Brian,
> >
> > I would have to agree with almost everything you say except,
> >
> > "Apparently this "hard work" approach works, as Internetwork Expert
> > certifies
> > more CCIEs than any other vendor on the market."
> >
> > How can you justify this statement? The IE success story list is
> much
> > shorter than
> > the NMC list, NLI's list and our (IPexpert) list....Care to explain
> this
> > one, and back it
> > up, or is this another false statement you and your partner are
> attempting
> > to pass
> > off to members of this list? Sorry for "publicly" questioning your
> > honesty and accuracy
> > here, but this one just doesn't make sense.....
> >
> >
> > -----Original message-----
> > From: "Brian McGahan" bmcgahan@internetworkexpert.com
> > Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 17:07:01 -0400
> > To: "john matijevic" matijevi@bellsouth.net
> > Subject: OT: bootcamps
> >
> > > Hi John,
> > >
> > > Now that you are an "instructor", I'm honestly surprised to see
> > > that you think that pass rate of previous students will affect the
> > > success of future ones. I have been in the CCIE training industry
> for a
> > > number of years now, and have seen many methods (some more
> successful
> > > than others) of preparation. From my experience the one thing I can
> > > tell you for sure is that it's very naive of a student, instructor,
> > > training company, or whoever to think that there is a foolproof
> solution
> > > to passing the CCIE lab exam.
> > >
> > > At Internetwork Expert we never have, and never will, advertise
> > > a passing rate, or even dream of giving a guarantee that you will
> pass
> > > the exam after going through our program. As it clearly states on
> our
> > > website:
> > >
> > > "Passing the CCIE lab requires a culmination of hands on real world
> > > experience, countless hours of self study, instructor-led training,
> and
> > > unrelenting determination. Despite what some companies may have you
> > > believe there is no magic product out there that will make you pass
> the
> > > CCIE lab. If what you are looking for is an easy way out to passing
> the
> > > CCIE lab exam IEWB-RS [our workbook] is not for you."
> > >
> > > What we at Internetwork Expert offer are simply tools for
> > > candidates to use as stepping stones in their preparation to get
> their
> > > level of knowledge to the point that they will pass the exam. In
> other
> > > words, if the student devotes the time to learning and understanding
> the
> > > technologies as expressed in our products, passing the CCIE lab exam
> > > will come naturally. Apparently this "hard work" approach works, as
> > > Internetwork Expert certifies more CCIEs than any other vendor on
> the
> > > market.
> > >
> > > For example, the class that you attended with us, Internetwork
> > > Expert's CCIE Routing & Switching Mock Lab Workshop (IEW-RS), is
> > > advertised as being "...designed for students to solidify their
> existing
> > > knowledge, expose weaknesses, and fully prepare them as they lead up
> to
> > > their CCIE R&S Lab Exam date. Students successfully completing this
> > > course will be fully prepared for the CCIE Lab Exam." The key words
> in
> > > this description are "existing knowledge" and "successfully
> completing
> > > this course". In your case, both Brian Dennis and I explained to
> you at
> > > the end of the week in a very nice way that you were not in fact
> ready
> > > to take the lab exam. Subsequently, you took and failed the lab
> exam
> > > the following week.
> > >
> > > As an instructor it is not my job to placate students into
> > > thinking that they understand a certain technology, or are ready for
> the
> > > lab exam. By this accord, why would I falsely advertise a 100%
> passing
> > > rate, or guarantee that you will pass the exam, when in reality the
> > > majority of candidates I see are in fact NOT sufficiently prepared
> for
> > > the exam. If they were then why would the failure rate of the exam
> be
> > > so high? (roughly 75% of exam attempts result in failure). In
> previous
> > > cases I have seen institutes where they did in fact falsely
> advertise a
> > > 100% passing rate, and guaranteed passing of the exam. Needless to
> say
> > > this institute lost a LOT of money when it was SUED by many previous
> > > students on the premise of false advertising, after they
> subsequently
> > > failed the exam. If you think that ANY class can teach you all the
> > > technologies needed to pass the lab exam in five days, you are sadly
> > > mistaken.
> > >
> > > I also have to question your notion that since you "have very
> > > current CCIE only 3 months, and I took exam so many times, that I
> have
> > > very good idea of what exam is about. I don't waste your time
> studying
> > > material that won't be tested on". In other words what you're
> saying is
> > > don't bother sorting through all those CONCEPTS, let's just go over
> the
> > > questions that are on the actual exam. Well I have news for you
> John,
> > > I've worked with many candidates have had DETAILED braindumps of the
> > > actual exam they took, and still failed. You know why? Because
> they
> > > still don't understand the technology. All they learned is how to
> > > mindlessly put a configuration in, not unlike yourself from doing
> "over
> > > 200 labs" as you so often tout on the list.
> > >
> > > Next, I'd like to address your claim that since some instructors
> > > "got their ccie years ago" they are obsolete. Two individuals come
> to
> > > mind when you mentioned this. You guessed it, Brian Dennis (CCIE
> #2210)
> > > and Scott Morris (CCIE #4713). Brian Dennis is *THE* most brilliant
> > > engineer I have ever met. Having his CCIE for nearly 10 years now,
> he
> > > has passed three CCIE lab exams in less attempts than it took you to
> > > achieve your one. Scott Morris is one of the select few engineers
> in
> > > the world who has *FOUR* CCIEs. Sorry John, but your level of
> knowledge
> > > pales in comparison to either of these individuals.
> > >
> > > In conclusion John, I would suggest that you stop replying to
> > > every post on the list with "oh yeah I used that product and it
> sucked,
> > > but BTW you can attend my class via MSN messenger for a fraction of
> the
> > > cost!" I for one am sick of all your negative comments and personal
> > > attacks, as I'm sure many other people on this list are.
> > >
> > >
> > > Sincerely,
> > >
> > > Brian McGahan, CCIE #8593
> > > bmcgahan@internetworkexpert.com
> > >
> > > Internetwork Expert, Inc.
> > > http://www.InternetworkExpert.com
> > > Toll Free: 877-224-8987 x 705
> > > Outside US: 775-826-4344 x 705
> > > 24/7 Support: http://forum.internetworkexpert.com
> > > Live Chat: http://www.internetworkexpert.com/chat/
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On
> Behalf
> > > Of
> > > > john matijevic
> > > > Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 12:57 PM
> > > > To: 'Joseph D. Phillips'; 'Eric Hoffman'
> > > > Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > > > Subject: RE: CCIE # 13843
> > > >
> > > > Hello Eric,
> > > > Congratulations for passing the exam even though it took you 6
> times.
> > > I
> > > > had to take the exam 5 times to pass. I had a similar experience
> to
> > > you
> > > > I had purchased several workbooks, but I attended more than 1 boot
> > > camp.
> > > > I attended Netmaster and Internetworkexpert mock lab workshop as
> well
> > > as
> > > > the IPexpert audio boot camp. Even though I did not attend
> > > Cyscoexpert,
> > > > I did research them and felt that they were really overcharging.
> And
> > > > that they gave some students different prices than others, I don't
> > > think
> > > > that is fair to do to customers. Also the big problem is with the
> boot
> > > > camps, is that they don't tell you what there passing rate is.
> This to
> > > > me is very important factor, I want to know how many people pass
> after
> > > > attending the boot camp. It is a shame that you have to fail so
> many
> > > > times in order to pass like I did. I really can sympathize, the
> > > problem
> > > > with many of the boot camps out there and the workbook vendors is
> that
> > > > they made there boot camp courses or workbooks years ago, and they
> got
> > > > their ccie years ago(look at their CCIE numbers), so they try and
> > > update
> > > > their workbooks but the problem is that the original topologies,
> tasks
> > > > etc, are still left over. Yes I purchased IPexpert as well, again
> my
> > > > feelings are that those labs were originated years ago, and they
> did
> > > not
> > > > completely rewrite the entire book, even though they have now
> proctor
> > > > guide and have several new labs. I am very proud to start my
> course,
> > > > because I have very current CCIE only 3 months, and I took exam so
> > > many
> > > > times, that I have very good idea of what exam is about. I don't
> waste
> > > > your time studying material that won't be tested on, and more
> > > > importantly I am not going to overcharge you, like some of the
> other
> > > > boot camps. Good Luck in your career endeavors as well!!!
> > > >
> > > > Sincerely,
> > > >
> > > > John Matijevic, CCIE #13254, MCSE, CNE, CCEA
> > > > CEO
> > > > IgorTek Inc.
> > > > 151 Crandon Blvd. #402
> > > > Key Biscayne, FL 33149
> > > > Hablo Espanol
> > > > 305-321-6232
> > > > http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-CCIE
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On
> Behalf
> > > Of
> > > > Joseph D. Phillips
> > > > Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 11:49 AM
> > > > To: Eric Hoffman
> > > > Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > > > Subject: Re: CCIE # 13843
> > > >
> > > > Very good. Congratulations, from a boob that's flunked 4x. :)
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
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