From: Wayne Lawson (groupstudy@ipexpert.net)
Date: Fri Sep 03 2004 - 18:23:15 GMT-3
Brian,
I would have to agree with almost everything you say except,
"Apparently this "hard work" approach works, as Internetwork Expert certifies
more CCIEs than any other vendor on the market."
How can you justify this statement? The IE success story list is much shorter than
the NMC list, NLI's list and our (IPexpert) list....Care to explain this one, and back it
up, or is this another false statement you and your partner are attempting to pass
off to members of this list? Sorry for "publicly" questioning your honesty and accuracy
here, but this one just doesn't make sense.....
-----Original message-----
From: "Brian McGahan" bmcgahan@internetworkexpert.com
Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 17:07:01 -0400
To: "john matijevic" matijevi@bellsouth.net
Subject: OT: bootcamps
> Hi John,
>
> Now that you are an "instructor", I'm honestly surprised to see
> that you think that pass rate of previous students will affect the
> success of future ones. I have been in the CCIE training industry for a
> number of years now, and have seen many methods (some more successful
> than others) of preparation. From my experience the one thing I can
> tell you for sure is that it's very naive of a student, instructor,
> training company, or whoever to think that there is a foolproof solution
> to passing the CCIE lab exam.
>
> At Internetwork Expert we never have, and never will, advertise
> a passing rate, or even dream of giving a guarantee that you will pass
> the exam after going through our program. As it clearly states on our
> website:
>
> "Passing the CCIE lab requires a culmination of hands on real world
> experience, countless hours of self study, instructor-led training, and
> unrelenting determination. Despite what some companies may have you
> believe there is no magic product out there that will make you pass the
> CCIE lab. If what you are looking for is an easy way out to passing the
> CCIE lab exam IEWB-RS [our workbook] is not for you."
>
> What we at Internetwork Expert offer are simply tools for
> candidates to use as stepping stones in their preparation to get their
> level of knowledge to the point that they will pass the exam. In other
> words, if the student devotes the time to learning and understanding the
> technologies as expressed in our products, passing the CCIE lab exam
> will come naturally. Apparently this "hard work" approach works, as
> Internetwork Expert certifies more CCIEs than any other vendor on the
> market.
>
> For example, the class that you attended with us, Internetwork
> Expert's CCIE Routing & Switching Mock Lab Workshop (IEW-RS), is
> advertised as being "...designed for students to solidify their existing
> knowledge, expose weaknesses, and fully prepare them as they lead up to
> their CCIE R&S Lab Exam date. Students successfully completing this
> course will be fully prepared for the CCIE Lab Exam." The key words in
> this description are "existing knowledge" and "successfully completing
> this course". In your case, both Brian Dennis and I explained to you at
> the end of the week in a very nice way that you were not in fact ready
> to take the lab exam. Subsequently, you took and failed the lab exam
> the following week.
>
> As an instructor it is not my job to placate students into
> thinking that they understand a certain technology, or are ready for the
> lab exam. By this accord, why would I falsely advertise a 100% passing
> rate, or guarantee that you will pass the exam, when in reality the
> majority of candidates I see are in fact NOT sufficiently prepared for
> the exam. If they were then why would the failure rate of the exam be
> so high? (roughly 75% of exam attempts result in failure). In previous
> cases I have seen institutes where they did in fact falsely advertise a
> 100% passing rate, and guaranteed passing of the exam. Needless to say
> this institute lost a LOT of money when it was SUED by many previous
> students on the premise of false advertising, after they subsequently
> failed the exam. If you think that ANY class can teach you all the
> technologies needed to pass the lab exam in five days, you are sadly
> mistaken.
>
> I also have to question your notion that since you "have very
> current CCIE only 3 months, and I took exam so many times, that I have
> very good idea of what exam is about. I don't waste your time studying
> material that won't be tested on". In other words what you're saying is
> don't bother sorting through all those CONCEPTS, let's just go over the
> questions that are on the actual exam. Well I have news for you John,
> I've worked with many candidates have had DETAILED braindumps of the
> actual exam they took, and still failed. You know why? Because they
> still don't understand the technology. All they learned is how to
> mindlessly put a configuration in, not unlike yourself from doing "over
> 200 labs" as you so often tout on the list.
>
> Next, I'd like to address your claim that since some instructors
> "got their ccie years ago" they are obsolete. Two individuals come to
> mind when you mentioned this. You guessed it, Brian Dennis (CCIE #2210)
> and Scott Morris (CCIE #4713). Brian Dennis is *THE* most brilliant
> engineer I have ever met. Having his CCIE for nearly 10 years now, he
> has passed three CCIE lab exams in less attempts than it took you to
> achieve your one. Scott Morris is one of the select few engineers in
> the world who has *FOUR* CCIEs. Sorry John, but your level of knowledge
> pales in comparison to either of these individuals.
>
> In conclusion John, I would suggest that you stop replying to
> every post on the list with "oh yeah I used that product and it sucked,
> but BTW you can attend my class via MSN messenger for a fraction of the
> cost!" I for one am sick of all your negative comments and personal
> attacks, as I'm sure many other people on this list are.
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Brian McGahan, CCIE #8593
> bmcgahan@internetworkexpert.com
>
> Internetwork Expert, Inc.
> http://www.InternetworkExpert.com
> Toll Free: 877-224-8987 x 705
> Outside US: 775-826-4344 x 705
> 24/7 Support: http://forum.internetworkexpert.com
> Live Chat: http://www.internetworkexpert.com/chat/
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
> Of
> > john matijevic
> > Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 12:57 PM
> > To: 'Joseph D. Phillips'; 'Eric Hoffman'
> > Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > Subject: RE: CCIE # 13843
> >
> > Hello Eric,
> > Congratulations for passing the exam even though it took you 6 times.
> I
> > had to take the exam 5 times to pass. I had a similar experience to
> you
> > I had purchased several workbooks, but I attended more than 1 boot
> camp.
> > I attended Netmaster and Internetworkexpert mock lab workshop as well
> as
> > the IPexpert audio boot camp. Even though I did not attend
> Cyscoexpert,
> > I did research them and felt that they were really overcharging. And
> > that they gave some students different prices than others, I don't
> think
> > that is fair to do to customers. Also the big problem is with the boot
> > camps, is that they don't tell you what there passing rate is. This to
> > me is very important factor, I want to know how many people pass after
> > attending the boot camp. It is a shame that you have to fail so many
> > times in order to pass like I did. I really can sympathize, the
> problem
> > with many of the boot camps out there and the workbook vendors is that
> > they made there boot camp courses or workbooks years ago, and they got
> > their ccie years ago(look at their CCIE numbers), so they try and
> update
> > their workbooks but the problem is that the original topologies, tasks
> > etc, are still left over. Yes I purchased IPexpert as well, again my
> > feelings are that those labs were originated years ago, and they did
> not
> > completely rewrite the entire book, even though they have now proctor
> > guide and have several new labs. I am very proud to start my course,
> > because I have very current CCIE only 3 months, and I took exam so
> many
> > times, that I have very good idea of what exam is about. I don't waste
> > your time studying material that won't be tested on, and more
> > importantly I am not going to overcharge you, like some of the other
> > boot camps. Good Luck in your career endeavors as well!!!
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > John Matijevic, CCIE #13254, MCSE, CNE, CCEA
> > CEO
> > IgorTek Inc.
> > 151 Crandon Blvd. #402
> > Key Biscayne, FL 33149
> > Hablo Espanol
> > 305-321-6232
> > http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-CCIE
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
> Of
> > Joseph D. Phillips
> > Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 11:49 AM
> > To: Eric Hoffman
> > Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > Subject: Re: CCIE # 13843
> >
> > Very good. Congratulations, from a boob that's flunked 4x. :)
> >
> >
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> >
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