From: Scott Morris (swm@emanon.com)
Date: Mon Jun 21 2004 - 12:39:23 GMT-3
The points listed in your message were complaining more about Cisco not
helping you pass your CCIE in a simpler fashion (succinct paraphrasing).
What more could you possibly want??? There are a myriad of training courses
out there that you can take. If you are a partner, there is PELC (Partner
E-Learning Connection) that you have at your disposal. There is certainly
the DocCD.
Yet, you center in on IOU as being a tool withheld from public purview and
to give an internal advantage.
What you need to do is sit back and think of what the CCIE means. The CCIE
has always been an "independent" group within Cisco, who's real purpose is
to certify (NOT TRAIN) those who are to be deemed "experts" in the
networking industry with regards to Cisco equipment. ILSG or WWT or
whatever they're called today is the group that is responsible for the
training mechanisms available, and creating the CCNA, CCNP, CQS stuff, etc.
But let me ask again... What more do you want? There are plenty of things
out there to assist you in learning what is necessary to pass the CCIE lab.
It's just not all in one place. If it were that easy, everyone would have
the cert, and it wouldn't be valued as much (no, we are NOT having this
discussion again).
But what do you think to gain out of this? You state "when I hear of
something like IOU, it does upset me" and therefore think you are not
sufficiently nurtured?
It would perhaps be better placed that Cisco put up tips on their website to
suggest that if you quit smoking, you'll have lots more money for that voice
module. (smirk)
Back to the sense of irony though. Nobody ever said it was secret. He
simply stated that it was for internal use only, and distribution to anyone
else was prohibited. Every company has internal programs. I travel a lot,
and I know the airlines have programs where internal folks can fly free or
fly in first class seats at a mere pittance of what I pay. Does it do
anything to my loyalty to an airline? No. Do I believe I am owed the
chance to participate in this program? No. It is merely reality.
Know what resources are available to you already. If you use them and you
still have big problems that you think Cisco isn't stepping up to the plate,
then lodge the complaint in the appropriate place. There may be a need that
hasn't been identified before (or perhaps being worked on, but internal
roadmaps aren't for public discussion either).
But keying in on a tool that is available that really doesn't solve what
your perceived problem is, isn't going to fix anything. Feel better though?
Scott
-----Original Message-----
From: John Underhill [mailto:stepnwlf@magma.ca]
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2004 10:15 PM
To: Scott Morris; 'Xiangrong Wang'; 'Ashok M A (aananda)'
Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: Re: Cisco IOU
Hmmn.. telling someone not to talk about software that is supposed to be a
company 'secret', and revealing that fact to the whole world in the
process.. seems like this fits into the definition of irony to me..
I do find it interesting though, that you would focus in with such a narrow
view of a much more substantial discussion, and in fact, avoid the key
points, which have nothing to do with IOU..
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Morris" <swm@emanon.com>
To: "'John Underhill'" <stepnwlf@magma.ca>; "'Xiangrong Wang'"
<xiangrow@cisco.com>; "'Ashok M A (aananda)'" <aananda@cisco.com>
Cc: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2004 9:33 PM
Subject: RE: Cisco IOU
> Irony is defined as "incongruity between what might be expected and what
> actually occurs", or "the use of words to express something different from
> and often opposite to their literal meaning."
>
> I don't see much ironic about his post, or about the existence of IOU.
IOU
> is a deliberate testing platform within Cisco internally. The fact that
the
> public knows about it is beside the point. There are many cool things
that
> the NSA has that we may "know" about. That doesn't make it ironic, nor
does
> it mean you have any right to use them.
>
> IOU was designed for certain testing concepts, and those concepts only.
As
> Xiangrong points out (ironic that you missed it?) the IOU is missing many
> key features and interfaces that make it all but impossible to use for
CCIE
> testing. So the question becomes: Having read this part, what makes you
> desire this tool? What do you think you could accomplish with it?
>
> Could you use a Sparc box to create a huge OSPF domain? Absolutely! Will
> this help you with your CCIE lab? Sure, in a limited sort of way (what?
> 8-12 points for IGP OSPF?) Will it help you with your Voice? No. Will
it
> help you with ISDN? No. Will it help you with ATM? No. Will it help
you
> with a 3550? No. Do you need to have it? No. Does it give Cisco
> "insiders" an edge for the CCIE lab? Absolutely not, other than testing
> certain topics within certain parameters. Hardly seems worthwhile IMHO.
>
> But certainly does not fit the definition of "ironic", nor interfere with
> customer loyalty or ease of deployment. While I would love to be able to
> call Microsoft (or any other company you substitute) and demand that they
> give me access to internal tools to "ease" my life and "enhance" my
loyalty,
> I don't see it happening.
>
> Ask Alanis Morrisette about irony. She has a decent song about it. And
> Cisco isn't mentioned once. ;)
>
> Scott
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
John
> Underhill
> Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2004 4:07 PM
> To: Xiangrong Wang; Ashok M A (aananda)
> Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: Re: Cisco IOU
>
> Witness: this is what is known as a 'clear cut case of irony'.
> By deciding to respond to the group address, you realize of course, that
you
> have violated that same policy? All kidding aside..
> I have always felt that it would serve the best interests of your company
to
> make more resources available to CCIE candidates. Say, some subset of the
> learning tools that are available to channel partners, could also be
> available to those that have passed the qualification exam. You have to
look
> at it in terms of investing company resources in those that are so clearly
> committed to investing in you. This is a symbiotic relationship, many of
the
> engineers that are committed to learning the nuances of your products, are
> also the same people who effect purchasing decisions within their
respective
> companies, and by better facilitating the learning process, you are in
turn
> both insuring product loyalty, and nurturing a culture of qualified
> engineers. There are many technologies tested in the curriculum, that are
> simply too expensive for the average student to afford, and I can only
> imagine the tremendous sacrifices made by people studying for this exam in
> the third world. So when I hear of something like IOU, it does upset me..
I
> understand the potential impact if it were freely distributed, but I also
> wonder if the current process could to be made 'less exclusive' and cost
> prohibitive by providing a free, limited access to some of these
> technologies. It seems to me that the more engineers that are able to
> embrace the CCIE curriculum unencumbered by financial constraints, the
> greater the number of people with the required product knowledge needed to
> effectively install, maintain, and distribute your products..
> Just my 2 cents.. I have to dig through my change jar now for cigarette
> money, as I spent my entire paycheck on a voice module..
>
> cheers
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Xiangrong Wang" <xiangrow@cisco.com>
> To: "Ashok M A (aananda)" <aananda@cisco.com>
> Cc: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2004 2:47 PM
> Subject: Re: Cisco IOU
>
>
> > Hi Ashok,
> >
> > Cisco IOS on Unix is a tool intended for internal use only. Distribution
> of
> > IOU images to customers or external persons, or discussion of IOU with
> > customers or external persons, is prohibited.
> >
> > As a Cisco employee, you should follow the rules strictly, and
discussion
> > of this topic here may harm the study group as well. If you need help on
> > using IOU, please send your questions to internal mail alias.
> > BTW, due to the limited support of interface on IOU, you still need real
> > routers to
> > prepare for the IE lab.
> >
> > thanks,
> > Xiangrong
> >
> > At 09:17 PM 06/18/04 +0530, Ashok M A \(aananda\) wrote:
> > >Hi,
> > >
> > >It would be great if you could provide me some link and help pages on
> Cisco
> > >IOU.
> > >
> > >Thanks,
> > >Ashok
> > >
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