From: John Underhill (stepnwlf@magma.ca)
Date: Mon Jun 21 2004 - 00:23:56 GMT-3
I might end up starting a brawl if I go.. :o(
----- Original Message -----
From: "phase90" <phase90@comcast.net>
To: "John Underhill" <stepnwlf@magma.ca>; "Scott Morris" <swm@emanon.com>;
"'Xiangrong Wang'" <xiangrow@cisco.com>; "'Ashok M A (aananda)'"
<aananda@cisco.com>
Cc: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2004 11:15 PM
Subject: Re: Cisco IOU
> Isn't it Ironic - Allanis "Morris"ette
>
> things that make you go Hmmmm!!!
>
> Networkers' 2004 in 23 [ or is it 24 ] days
>
> be there or be square!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Underhill" <stepnwlf@magma.ca>
> To: "Scott Morris" <swm@emanon.com>; "'Xiangrong Wang'"
> <xiangrow@cisco.com>; "'Ashok M A (aananda)'" <aananda@cisco.com>
> Cc: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2004 10:14 PM
> Subject: Re: Cisco IOU
>
>
> > Hmmn.. telling someone not to talk about software that is supposed to be
a
> > company 'secret', and revealing that fact to the whole world in the
> > process.. seems like this fits into the definition of irony to me..
> > I do find it interesting though, that you would focus in with such a
> narrow
> > view of a much more substantial discussion, and in fact, avoid the key
> > points, which have nothing to do with IOU..
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Scott Morris" <swm@emanon.com>
> > To: "'John Underhill'" <stepnwlf@magma.ca>; "'Xiangrong Wang'"
> > <xiangrow@cisco.com>; "'Ashok M A (aananda)'" <aananda@cisco.com>
> > Cc: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2004 9:33 PM
> > Subject: RE: Cisco IOU
> >
> >
> > > Irony is defined as "incongruity between what might be expected and
what
> > > actually occurs", or "the use of words to express something different
> from
> > > and often opposite to their literal meaning."
> > >
> > > I don't see much ironic about his post, or about the existence of IOU.
> > IOU
> > > is a deliberate testing platform within Cisco internally. The fact
that
> > the
> > > public knows about it is beside the point. There are many cool things
> > that
> > > the NSA has that we may "know" about. That doesn't make it ironic,
nor
> > does
> > > it mean you have any right to use them.
> > >
> > > IOU was designed for certain testing concepts, and those concepts
only.
> > As
> > > Xiangrong points out (ironic that you missed it?) the IOU is missing
> many
> > > key features and interfaces that make it all but impossible to use for
> > CCIE
> > > testing. So the question becomes: Having read this part, what makes
> you
> > > desire this tool? What do you think you could accomplish with it?
> > >
> > > Could you use a Sparc box to create a huge OSPF domain? Absolutely!
> Will
> > > this help you with your CCIE lab? Sure, in a limited sort of way
(what?
> > > 8-12 points for IGP OSPF?) Will it help you with your Voice? No.
Will
> > it
> > > help you with ISDN? No. Will it help you with ATM? No. Will it
help
> > you
> > > with a 3550? No. Do you need to have it? No. Does it give Cisco
> > > "insiders" an edge for the CCIE lab? Absolutely not, other than
testing
> > > certain topics within certain parameters. Hardly seems worthwhile
IMHO.
> > >
> > > But certainly does not fit the definition of "ironic", nor interfere
> with
> > > customer loyalty or ease of deployment. While I would love to be able
> to
> > > call Microsoft (or any other company you substitute) and demand that
> they
> > > give me access to internal tools to "ease" my life and "enhance" my
> > loyalty,
> > > I don't see it happening.
> > >
> > > Ask Alanis Morrisette about irony. She has a decent song about it.
And
> > > Cisco isn't mentioned once. ;)
> > >
> > > Scott
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
Of
> > John
> > > Underhill
> > > Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2004 4:07 PM
> > > To: Xiangrong Wang; Ashok M A (aananda)
> > > Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > > Subject: Re: Cisco IOU
> > >
> > > Witness: this is what is known as a 'clear cut case of irony'.
> > > By deciding to respond to the group address, you realize of course,
that
> > you
> > > have violated that same policy? All kidding aside..
> > > I have always felt that it would serve the best interests of your
> company
> > to
> > > make more resources available to CCIE candidates. Say, some subset of
> the
> > > learning tools that are available to channel partners, could also be
> > > available to those that have passed the qualification exam. You have
to
> > look
> > > at it in terms of investing company resources in those that are so
> clearly
> > > committed to investing in you. This is a symbiotic relationship, many
of
> > the
> > > engineers that are committed to learning the nuances of your products,
> are
> > > also the same people who effect purchasing decisions within their
> > respective
> > > companies, and by better facilitating the learning process, you are in
> > turn
> > > both insuring product loyalty, and nurturing a culture of qualified
> > > engineers. There are many technologies tested in the curriculum, that
> are
> > > simply too expensive for the average student to afford, and I can only
> > > imagine the tremendous sacrifices made by people studying for this
exam
> in
> > > the third world. So when I hear of something like IOU, it does upset
> me..
> > I
> > > understand the potential impact if it were freely distributed, but I
> also
> > > wonder if the current process could to be made 'less exclusive' and
cost
> > > prohibitive by providing a free, limited access to some of these
> > > technologies. It seems to me that the more engineers that are able to
> > > embrace the CCIE curriculum unencumbered by financial constraints, the
> > > greater the number of people with the required product knowledge
needed
> to
> > > effectively install, maintain, and distribute your products..
> > > Just my 2 cents.. I have to dig through my change jar now for
cigarette
> > > money, as I spent my entire paycheck on a voice module..
> > >
> > > cheers
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Xiangrong Wang" <xiangrow@cisco.com>
> > > To: "Ashok M A (aananda)" <aananda@cisco.com>
> > > Cc: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> > > Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2004 2:47 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Cisco IOU
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hi Ashok,
> > > >
> > > > Cisco IOS on Unix is a tool intended for internal use only.
> Distribution
> > > of
> > > > IOU images to customers or external persons, or discussion of IOU
with
> > > > customers or external persons, is prohibited.
> > > >
> > > > As a Cisco employee, you should follow the rules strictly, and
> > discussion
> > > > of this topic here may harm the study group as well. If you need
help
> on
> > > > using IOU, please send your questions to internal mail alias.
> > > > BTW, due to the limited support of interface on IOU, you still need
> real
> > > > routers to
> > > > prepare for the IE lab.
> > > >
> > > > thanks,
> > > > Xiangrong
> > > >
> > > > At 09:17 PM 06/18/04 +0530, Ashok M A \(aananda\) wrote:
> > > > >Hi,
> > > > >
> > > > >It would be great if you could provide me some link and help pages
on
> > > Cisco
> > > > >IOU.
> > > > >
> > > > >Thanks,
> > > > >Ashok
> > > > >
> > > >
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