From: Allan Wells (wellse@bigpond.net.au)
Date: Mon May 24 2004 - 09:03:06 GMT-3
I dont aggree buy the internetworkexpert workbook for the value for the
complexity and simplicity/explanation of tasks not to mention cost factor.
It is absouloutly a great tool for people of all levels the solution guide
is fantastic !!!
It shows me that a company has priced a product which will be affordable to
most which is important and i bet you people of all levels can relate to
this workbook.
Read that how you will.
hving said this I bought the voice pack from IPexpert which is Scott Morris
explaining scenarios which is also very good so its not all bad at all.
IPexpert products are overpriced for what they are simple as that .
I have harked up alot of cash pusuing the number and have attened a bootcamp
an spoken to many to be CCIE's whom share my view I will plug the
internetworkexpert orkbook because it is a fantastic product,
And therby gets the CCIE to be stamp of approval ..........
www.internetworkexpert.com
Allan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Morris" <swm@emanon.com>
To: "'Tim Last'" <packtmon@yahoo.com>; "'Jan K'" <jan_k@verizon.net>;
<ccielab@groupstudy.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 1:43 PM
Subject: RE: which workbook?
> Ok, now I'm going to have to jump in here... Some of these conversations
> really aren't safe to jump into, but others you don't have a choice....
>
> I'm not sure who told you that IPExpert claims a lack of support on
products
> was because of anything along the lines that you laid out there.
>
> There are some problems with support, yes. There are a lot of products,
> yes. Are the two directly related to each other? No.
>
> There is a LOT of stuff being done to both enhance the products, expand
the
> product line AND bring about quality and timely support on the web site.
Is
> it perfect? No. Is it being improved? Yes. Is it of tantamount
> importance? Absolutely.
>
> There are many steps being taken to make it a successful product all
around,
> and unfortunately, one side effect of having lots of exposure is that,
well,
> you have lots of exposure and people criticize things to the point of
> bordering on ridiculous.
>
> While there are holes in plans, I find it difficult to believe that your
> experience was truly as lacking as you seem to point out. I would be
> willing to bet that (like most) reality lies somewhere in the grey area in
> between the extremes.
>
> I'm not attempting to make any excuses, nor offering any. As much as I
can,
> I apologize about past inconsistencies or problems that have arisen, but I
> whole-heartedly believe that things are not only better, but still
improving
> as it is indeed an important area as you have mentioned.
>
> Without trying to drag this down into the realm of being a shameless plug,
> there are many good things about the IPExpert workbook series as a
wonderful
> prep tool. There are also (and continue to be) many improvements and
> enhancements to the product over time. As an instructor (not just
> IPExpert's instructor, but as an instructor in general) there is much to
be
> said of the learning style approach and "path" that the IPExpert books
take.
>
> The market offers many alternatives, but I hate to see one bashed so bad
not
> only that I work for, but that is based on inconsistent or incorrect
> premises.
>
>
> Scott Morris, CCIE4 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service Provider) #4713, CISSP,
> JNCIP, et al.
> IPExpert CCIE Program Manager
> IPExpert Sr. Technical Instructor
> swm@emanon.com/smorris@ipexpert.net
> http://www.ipexpert.net
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
Tim
> Last
> Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:01 PM
> To: Jan K; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: Re: which workbook?
>
> Personally, I can't say anything about ccbootcamp's workbook. Haven't
seen
> it. But, if you're interested, I would just go to their web site and see
if
> they have a sample lab and Solution Guide for the sample lab. If they do,
> then do the same with IE and compare.
>
> Then try to find out about their support. Believe me, nothing is worse,
> nothing is more frustrating and nothing wastes more time than having a
> problem figuring out why something doesn't work and not being able to get
> any help. That was the biggest problem with IPExpert. Their "support"
> WASN'T. It was practically non-existent.
>
> And, because there were so many mistakes in their labs, having good
support
> was all the more important and necessary.
>
> IPexpert claims that they can't support their products because they have
so
> many products and there just aren't enough qualified people available to
> provide support. But, as far as I'm concerned, there product isn't
complete
> if they support it. And, they charge so much for it as well. It's
> terrible.
>
> Then, if you're satisfied the product is good and the support will be
good,
> then compare prices and decides which workbook will give you the most bang
> for your buck.
>
> Then get to work. The lab is gonna change again on August 1st.
>
> HTH
>
> Jan K <jan_k@verizon.net> wrote:
> I'm seeing all this talk about NMC, IPExpert and IE, but how about Network
> Learning (ccbootcamp.com)? They were probably one of the first ones out
> there with a workbook a few years ago. Is the latest version (12.2) still
> any good? How does it compare to the other three?
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
> Jan
>
>
>
> From: "Tim Last"
>
>
>
> > Danny,
> >
> > I tend to agree with you as far as usually getting what you pay for.
> However, in this case, I think that common adage isn't true.
> >
> > I don't have first hand experience with the NMC workbook but about a
month
> ago, when I was considering which workbook to get, I spoke to a buddy of
> mine (who is now a ccie after about 5 attempts) and asked him about the
NMC
> workbook which he had purchased.
> >
> > (BTW, I had bought the IPExpert workbook and wasn't happy with that for
> several reasons. They were full of mistakes, they didn't include a
Solution
> Guide, and their support was almost non-existent)
> >
> > He told me he was disappointed with the NMC workbook for 2 primary
> reasons:
> >
> > a) They had far too many mistakes and compared to the real lab
> >
> > b) They seemed to have an unrealistic focus on weird and convoluted
> redistribution problems.
> >
> > So, I got the IE workbook and it's fantastic. Based on my own experience
> taking the real lab, IE's practice labs are very comparable in the level
of
> difficulty of the real lab and the type of problems one can expect to see,
> Their Solution Guide is a work of ART, and there are very few errors of
any
> sort. So far, I've only come across a few minor typo's but nothing that
> like the errors that were in the IPExpert workbook which had busloads of
> logic errors.
> >
> > In addition, IE's support site actually provides support. If you take a
> look at it, you'll see how often Brian McGahan (and sometimes Brian
Dennis)
> has responded to questions with answers that actually answer people's
> questions.
> >
> > Then, if you consider how much you'll learn compared to how much you
have
> to invest, $200, I think it's the best deal available today by far.
> >
> > Again, I can't say anything about NMC from personal experience, but
having
> suffered through the lack of support from IPExpert and the huge volumes of
> errors in their workbook, I can tell you, those 2 problems combined make
for
> a horrorable experience. Remember that when someone is trying to figure
> stuff out and trying to master this technology, when there's a logic
> problem, it's hard as hell to know, at first, if the problem is a result
of
> not understanding the technology or how the commands actually work or
> because there are inconsistancies between the task you're trying to do and
> the solution.
> >
> > Then, if you add the fact that IPExpert doesn't provide decent support,
> the result is that you end up wasting huge amounts of time and not
learning
> the material and understanding what the networking problems are and what
you
> need to do to solve them.
> >
> > Anyway, that's my 2 cents worth.
> >
> > Tim
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Please help support GroupStudy by purchasing your study materials from:
> http://shop.groupstudy.com
>
> Subscription information may be found at:
> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70/year
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Please help support GroupStudy by purchasing your study materials from:
> http://shop.groupstudy.com
>
> Subscription information may be found at:
> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Please help support GroupStudy by purchasing your study materials from:
> http://shop.groupstudy.com
>
> Subscription information may be found at:
> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>
--- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.676 / Virus Database: 438 - Release Date: 5/3/2004
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.4 : Wed Jun 02 2004 - 11:12:16 GMT-3