From: jgraun@comcast.net
Date: Tue Mar 02 2004 - 12:52:44 GMT-3
I have to disagree with you all, I been a CCIE for awhile now, it is getting out of hand you have all these CCIE bootcamps that are producing sub-standard people that have never been in the field before and have no real experince with networks if it isnt on the lab exam. How does it sound for somebody to be on an interview and they keep saying "well in the lab I have..." It is bullshit
> I tend to agree with Howard's assessment. I also think
> Roger is dead on. As long as the CCIE lab is what it is,
> it generally makes experts out of the people pursuing it,
> regardless of what they tend to think starting out.
>
> As for Cisco's motivations.. they could be many.. But
> generally, CCIE-level people tend to be a strong influence
> in decision making and recommendations for pruducts used
> in designs. People tend to recommend what they know and
> what they know works. It makes perfect sense that
> promoting CCIE is in line with Cisco's future business
> interests.
>
>
>
> At 8:58 AM -0500 3/2/04, McNeace, Roger wrote:
> >Obiviuosly you guys have never actually taken the lab
> >exam. I see nothing wrong with Cisco promoting thier
> >product and encouraging people to pursue the CCIE. Only
> >3% of Cisco Certified peolple actually obtain the CCIE
> >level. It took me three years to get my number and I
> >never saw a braindump on the Internet for the lab exam. It
> >still takes extreme dedication, time and lots of $$$ to
> >get the CCIE. Anyone who gets thier number deserves it,
> > the sky is not falling.
> >
> >Ciena Corporation
> >Roger McNeace, CCIE #12777
> >Senior Network Engineer
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Jason Graun [mailto:jgraun@comcast.net]
> >Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 8:20 AM
> >To: ihatecisco@att.net; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> >Subject: RE: Your Next Step is CCIE [Cisco feeling the
> >burn]
> >
> >
> >This is such bullshit, if Cisco isn't careful the CCIE
> >will become like the
> >MCSE (Must Call Someone Else) CCIE (Cisco Certifies Idiots
> >Everyday). The
> >CCIE should not be seen as a revenue generating part of
> >Cisco. But
> >hopefully Cisco stops the insanity or there will be
> >nothing sacred and holy
> >left.
>
>
> I really have to question this. My suspicion is that you
> are seeing an effort by the certification/training people
> to look good, but this sort of appeal isn't even in the
> scope of a John Chambers.
>
> From Cisco's strategic business standpoint, the only
> reason to have
> training, documentation, certification and support is to
> sell networking products. There are far better profit
> margins on a router than there is in certification.
>
> Some years ago, training and associated things were simply
> seen as overhead, and they were measured in customer
> satisfaction rather than dollars. I can't look into the
> minds of the present managers, but at one point, the
> managers shifted to people that wanted training and
> associated things to be a profit center.It might be, at
> the level of their immediate VP, but certification simply
> is never going to be a major part of Cisco's revenue.
>
> Another possible explanation is that Cisco sees
> partner/reseller support slipping and more work coming
> back to the TAC. It is to Cisco's advantage to outsource
> support to resellers, and certification, by and large, is
> the main tool they have to assess reseller competence to
> do support.
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com]
> >On Behalf Of
> >ihatecisco@att.net
> >Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 12:19 AM
> >To: ccielab@groupstudy.com
> >Subject: FW: Your Next Step is CCIE [Cisco feeling the
> >burn]
> >
> >Looks like the certification value slide is starting to
> >begin. Cisco trying
> >to get more people to start on the long road to CCIE.
> >
> >I will let anyone know if i find any coupons in this
> >weekends paper.
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: ccie-promo@cisco.com [mailto:ccie-promo@cisco.com]
> >Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 11:54 PM
> >To: [ME]
> >Subject: Your Next Step is CCIE
> >
> >
> >Dear CCNP,
> >
> >With the economy poised for recovery, now is the time to
> >strengthen your
> >personal qualifications. Obtaining your CCIE.
> >certification can provide you
> >with the edge you need to move your career to the next
> >level.
> >
> > a.. Studying for the exams expands your technical
> >knowledge.
> > b.. Passing the lab gives you personal satisfaction.
> > c.. Displaying your official CCIE number earns you the
> >respect and
> >admiration of colleagues and employers.
> >Obtaining your CCNP was an important step in your career.
> >Taking the next
> >step-earning your CCIE-will differentiate you, and
> >establish your mastery of
> >complex technology. Commit yourself to achieving CCIE
> >certification this
> >year.
> >Schedule your written exam now and enter a drawing for
> >free CCIE self-study
> >materials from Cisco Press. Preparation is key to success
> >on the lab exam,
> >and
> >self-study with Cisco equipment is the most important
> >factor. CCIE Practical
> >Studies, a two-volume set from Cisco Press (a $150 value),
> >is designed to
> >help
> >CCIE candidates prepare for the hands-on lab exam and
> >supplies lab scenarios
> >for effective self-study.
> >
> >To qualify for the drawing, you must be a CCNP in good
> >standing and register
> >and take a CCIE written exam (any track) before June 30,
> >2004. A passing
> >score
> >is not necessary to qualify. One two-volume set will be
> >awarded to a
> >qualified
> >CCNP each month. Those not chosen will remain in the pool
> >for drawings in
> >subsequent months. Books will be shipped to winners after
> >verification that
> >exam is complete. Cisco employees are not eligible for
> >this offer.
> >
> >Need more?
> >
> >* CCIE was the most lucrative professional credential in
> >2003, according to
> >Certification Magazine's annual survey of over 19,000 IT
> >professionals.
> >
> >* CCIE was voted the #2 Hottest Exam for 2004 (#1 in 2003)
> >by the readers of
> >CertCities.com
> >
> >* CCIE was named "Most Technically Advanced Certification"
> >and "Best
> >Hands-On
> >Program" by Certification Magazine.
> >
> >Visit the CCIE website now for more information on the
> >CCIE tracks--Routing
> >&
> >Switching, Security, Service Provider and Voice, and to
> >schedule your exam.
> >Details for entering the drawing are also available on the
> >website at
> >Special
> >Offer for CCNPs.
> >
> >Mike Reid
> >CCIE Program Manager
> >Cisco Systems, Inc.
> >
> >_______________________________________________________________________
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