From: Phil (ciscostudent1@yahoo.com.br)
Date: Sat Nov 22 2003 - 11:17:23 GMT-3
Anthony,
It is clear that you are very frustrated for having failed the exam and you are a person that puts a lot of pressure to yourself.
The CCIE is all about learning, there is no other network certification out there that makes you learn while studying. I enjoy studying for the CCIE cause you can learn so much even if you are experienced in the field.
I'm preparing for the CCIE Security and I'm learning so many things that I really don't care if I pass or fail the exam (I tried it once and failed). I'm going for it again next month but I really don't care if I pass or fail because either way I'm learning the stuff. Passing the test is a matter of knowing the subjects, staying calm, being focused and having a little luck. No matter what, passing or not, what you've learned, you've learned and no, you don't need to know Windows or Unix to become a CCIE because those are not requirements in the lab exam.
The real important things in life are not behind a certification or title. They have names and they are your wife, kids and friends. Those you'll take with you, the certifications will stay behind.
Phil
"Hoyle, Anthony (AL)" <ALHoyle@dow.com> wrote:
Ok..I gotta cut into you on this one...
I am not a CCIE but there are paper CCIE's out there, hell they are a few that I know. I have been a WAN infrastructure Analyst for about 4 years, and have been working on this CCIE thing for about three. I happen to be lucky enough to work on the biggest network in the world (automaker), as well as the biggest voip network in the world (chemical company) -if you can think of it I've seen it..-however protocols such as BGP and various VPN applications are
Not as prevalent in big companies as people think. We usually only see the EGP stuff at the edge - and deal very little with it. On the other hand I have seen call manager problems, MGCP gateway problems, all kind of voice problems, routing problems, switching problems, spanning-tree problems that will make you sweat... Network problems , DEC and ISIS problems that would make your eyes go round in circles..but I still think it is good reference to be able to have books like troubleshooting IP telephony, or call manager fundamentals, and troubleshooting call managers.
Now, I have to agree, I have Halabi..even though I only read a few pages, I have Doyle, and just about every other book you can think of (Cisco press only) matter of fact, I can't think of any book I have ever finished reading hee hee, It seems like I buy those books, read a little bit, and think how silly they are, and start configuring a scenario, or do something else with my time...if this is a CCIE out that hasn't read any Cisco press books, or hasn't used the doco cd extensively, I would say , you are a genius, and have photographic memory...hats off*
My background has been all IT, I worked on a helpdesk for two years, desktop/UNIX support for two years, LAN server support for two more and WAN for the past four. I see the CCIE program as an applied practice of advanced knowledge....Dealing /w my Cisco NSA buddies, I am aware of Cisco Systems normal CCIE process (those of you at Cisco can validate this) I believe they require two years of field experience before even attempting the CCNP track, and an additional two more before even considering the CCIE track. We institute that same program here. Another problem I see, are people that switch careers to IT, and can't figure out why they have their CCNP, but do not understand anything. They can't even fix simple IDSN problems, it makes me sick sometimes. ...I remember asking someone to span a port for me, they gave the deer in the headlights(co called "ccnp") If you can't fix a desktop problem in the registry, how can you fix a complex routing problem -that's my persona!
l take. If you can't grep a file on Solaris box, how can you troubleshoot problems on 5509. I may be cutting into you guys, but I have a wife and two kids, and this has taken a lot of time in addition to working 12hrs a day (but sometimes my job is my lab hee hee hee) -bottom line. I will not short change the CCNP program, if conducted and executed correctly (lots of labs, work experience combined with deep understanding of the theory behind all of the protocols) it can be a very useful certification.
We work on 12000's, 6509's, 3550s(all day), you name it. This does not guarantee we will be doing layer two tunneling, or 3550 QOS, but we are using tools like QPM, Cisco Works, NetView, Tivoli and a million other SNMP tools. I practice all my ATM on IGX's and 1010's. If you can't use distributed sniffer to troubleshoot a problem /w clients taking a 1/2 hr to logon, how can you troubleshoot OSPF problems, or even EIGRP problems.
Yeah I failed the first time(Nov 6th 2003), I may even fail the second time, I will pass one day* But that by any means makes me no lesser then the guy that did it the first time. I have done all the boot (different vendor) camp labs, I read all of the config guides- and configured examples for each scenario, I have read all of the tech tips and setup up the scenarios..(but then again I never really sat for that type of test before /w time constraints...I ran out of time) I have taken all the CIPT training, qos and advanced qos, advanced avvid, matter of fact I hate those classes ..although the advanced avvid was challenging...I have read RFCs, sometimes reading those "are not fun" but they help.
I don't have a bunch certifications -mcse(94'), ccnp(00') and unix(95') from 1994' (of course) -that's it. Hell, I don't even have a master degrees, but this is my life, my career, my bread and butter. I place the CCIE at the top of my silver pedestal. At this point in my career, I will get nothing for accomplishing the CCIE (unless they come up /w level 5 support hee hee hee) but I will get the satisfaction of overcoming a most difficult accomplishment, and placing myself in line for the voice IE.
You put quote
"The CCIE lab is meant for network engineers with experience.
Experienced people does not fail on the first attempt. Neither to they
read all those books quite a few of you are referring too. Who the heck
is Halabi(?)? I never read him."
We have very smart people /w doctorates, more experience, that are heavier than me, that have failed the first time. I still go to those people for advanced issues, or second opinions. This is not intended directly towards anyone in general, but too all of you have taken back doors, cut corners, and of course the lab rats. Those get no respect in our house. We need people who can identify and resolve problems in large production environment very quickly, /w the knowledge and work experience in those environments that firmly stand behind the underlying technologies (principals engineers). I have seen problems, where people were unsure and caused a few thousand phones to be unavailable, I've seen "know it alls -paper...engineer" implement toll bypass and cause a world of problems. Sometimes the CCIE identifies those individuals, sometimes it doesn't -although very rare*
Closing, you guys may kick me off this list for saying all of that, I don't care. -Make sure you post it* The CCIE program is very hard, very rewarding, and should still be valued at the top. Those of you considering this program, re-evaluate where you are in life technically, how much time you have in your life..and for you lab rats, how deep are your pockets* I'm still broke from taking that first lab attempt, failure is not an option for me the second time around financially nor mentally*
Anthony Hoyle
EDS
WAN Infrastructure Analyst
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of Jason Graun
Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2003 2:37 AM
To: 'Thomas Larus'; 'Erlend Ringstad'; ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: RE: Finally #12534
That is a good question who is Halabi anyway?! Also I heard about this Doyle guy what is the big deal with him, what did he do?
Thanks
CCIE #150,000
P.S. I am not sorry for being a dick, and yes there are lab rat CCIE's
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of Thomas Larus
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 8:12 PM
To: Erlend Ringstad; ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: Re: Finally #12534
Did I miss some message that would make this message from Erlen Ringstad make sense?
Standing alone it would appear to be nonsense, so there must be some other message that would put it in context so that it would make sense.
Tom Larus, CCIE #10,014
Author of CCIE Warm-Up: Advice and Learning Labs http://www.ipexpert.com/products_services/product.asp?sku=ip7777
tlarus@ipexpert.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Erlend Ringstad"
To:
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 8:28 PM
Subject: RE: Finally #12534
> > There is no easy way! There are no shortcuts!
>
> The CCIE lab is ment for network engineers with experience.
> Experienced people does not fail on the first attempt. Neither to they
> read all those books quite a few of you are refering too. Who the heck
> is Halabi(?)? I never read him.
>
> > CCIE #12534
>
> Sorry for beeing a dick; but welcome to the paper-CCIE club.
>
> Regards,
> Erlend Ringstad
>
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