From: christopher snow (cbsnow31@yahoo.com)
Date: Sat Nov 22 2003 - 16:38:26 GMT-3
Anthony,
I would have to disagree with you on having to know
LAN/server skills before "being qualified" to move
onto CCIE level studies. I work for a large carrier
and have no direct need for LAN/server knowledge at my
job. My department mangages numerous Fortune 500
company networks totaling over 8,000 edge routers (
heavy BGP, EIGRP, RIP, OSPF, ODR, QOS, DLSW, ISDN etc)
I also have to troubleshoot Cisco MGX, IGX, ESR, and
BPX switches. Not to mention Notel, Newbridge, and
other carrier class equipment. Now throw in all the
DXCs, imuxes, CSUs, and testing/troubleshooting
associated with all the physical circuits (fiber down
to DS0) that connect these components. I have never
had to troubleshoot a spanning tree problem before,
and I know enough Unix to be dangerous. I would be as
useful as a screen door on a submarine if I had to fix
a MS exchange server problem! However, you have
probably never dealt with an MPLS backbone problem or
have had to figure out a software compatability issue
between an Orion and Mega-T that was causing T1's to
randomly drop out on a customer router's HSSI port. My
only exposure to some technologies has been in my home
lab. Does this make me or you any less of a
networking professional? Definatley not! There are
many facets to the networking arena, and we all play
individual roles. The CCIE program has forced me out
of my comfort zone has made me learn technologies I
might have otherwise never learned. It also made me
realize I didnt know some technologies as well as I
thought I did :) I am having fun along the way, but
it is a chore to miss family time with my wife and
three kids to do labs :( Not to mention all the new
PC and Xbox games that are out that I am dying to play
but can't, as I know once I start, I will get wrapped
up in them and neglect my studies. Keep your chin up
and you will succeed. Good luck in your studies and I
hope to see you post your number soon!
Chris Snow
--- "Hoyle, Anthony (AL)" <ALHoyle@dow.com> wrote:
> Ok..I gotta cut into you on this one...
>
> I am not a CCIE but there are paper CCIE's out
> there, hell they are a few that I know. I have been
> a WAN infrastructure Analyst for about 4 years, and
> have been working on this CCIE thing for about
> three. I happen to be lucky enough to work on the
> biggest network in the world (automaker), as well as
> the biggest voip network in the world (chemical
> company) -if you can think of it I've seen
> it..-however protocols such as BGP and various VPN
> applications are
> Not as prevalent in big companies as people think.
> We usually only see the EGP stuff at the edge - and
> deal very little with it. On the other hand I have
> seen call manager problems, MGCP gateway problems,
> all kind of voice problems, routing problems,
> switching problems, spanning-tree problems that will
> make you sweat... Network problems , DEC and ISIS
> problems that would make your eyes go round in
> circles..but I still think it is good reference to
> be able to have books like troubleshooting IP
> telephony, or call manager fundamentals, and
> troubleshooting call managers.
>
> Now, I have to agree, I have Halabi..even though I
> only read a few pages, I have Doyle, and just about
> every other book you can think of (Cisco press only)
> matter of fact, I can't think of any book I have
> ever finished reading hee hee, It seems like I buy
> those books, read a little bit, and think how silly
> they are, and start configuring a scenario, or do
> something else with my time...if this is a CCIE out
> that hasn't read any Cisco press books, or hasn't
> used the doco cd extensively, I would say , you are
> a genius, and have photographic memory...hats off*
>
> My background has been all IT, I worked on a
> helpdesk for two years, desktop/UNIX support for two
> years, LAN server support for two more and WAN for
> the past four. I see the CCIE program as an applied
> practice of advanced knowledge....Dealing /w my
> Cisco NSA buddies, I am aware of Cisco Systems
> normal CCIE process (those of you at Cisco can
> validate this) I believe they require two years of
> field experience before even attempting the CCNP
> track, and an additional two more before even
> considering the CCIE track. We institute that same
> program here. Another problem I see, are people
> that switch careers to IT, and can't figure out why
> they have their CCNP, but do not understand
> anything. They can't even fix simple IDSN problems,
> it makes me sick sometimes. ...I remember asking
> someone to span a port for me, they gave the deer in
> the headlights(co called "ccnp") If you can't fix a
> desktop problem in the registry, how can you fix a
> complex routing problem -that's my persona!
> l take. If you can't grep a file on Solaris box,
> how can you troubleshoot problems on 5509. I may
> be cutting into you guys, but I have a wife and two
> kids, and this has taken a lot of time in addition
> to working 12hrs a day (but sometimes my job is my
> lab hee hee hee) -bottom line. I will not short
> change the CCNP program, if conducted and executed
> correctly (lots of labs, work experience combined
> with deep understanding of the theory behind all of
> the protocols) it can be a very useful
> certification.
>
> We work on 12000's, 6509's, 3550s(all day), you name
> it. This does not guarantee we will be doing layer
> two tunneling, or 3550 QOS, but we are using tools
> like QPM, Cisco Works, NetView, Tivoli and a million
> other SNMP tools. I practice all my ATM on IGX's
> and 1010's. If you can't use distributed sniffer to
> troubleshoot a problem /w clients taking a 1/2 hr to
> logon, how can you troubleshoot OSPF problems, or
> even EIGRP problems.
>
> Yeah I failed the first time(Nov 6th 2003), I may
> even fail the second time, I will pass one day* But
> that by any means makes me no lesser then the guy
> that did it the first time. I have done all the boot
> (different vendor) camp labs, I read all of the
> config guides- and configured examples for each
> scenario, I have read all of the tech tips and setup
> up the scenarios..(but then again I never really sat
> for that type of test before /w time constraints...I
> ran out of time) I have taken all the CIPT training,
> qos and advanced qos, advanced avvid, matter of fact
> I hate those classes ..although the advanced avvid
> was challenging...I have read RFCs, sometimes
> reading those "are not fun" but they help.
>
> I don't have a bunch certifications -mcse(94'),
> ccnp(00') and unix(95') from 1994' (of course)
> -that's it. Hell, I don't even have a master
> degrees, but this is my life, my career, my bread
> and butter. I place the CCIE at the top of my
> silver pedestal. At this point in my career, I will
> get nothing for accomplishing the CCIE (unless they
> come up /w level 5 support hee hee hee) but I will
> get the satisfaction of overcoming a most difficult
> accomplishment, and placing myself in line for the
> voice IE.
>
>
>
> You put quote
>
> "The CCIE lab is meant for network engineers with
> experience.
> Experienced people does not fail on the first
> attempt. Neither to they
> read all those books quite a few of you are
> referring too. Who the heck
> is Halabi(?)? I never read him."
>
>
> We have very smart people /w doctorates, more
> experience, that are heavier than me, that have
> failed the first time. I still go to those people
> for advanced issues, or second opinions. This is not
> intended directly towards anyone in general, but too
> all of you have taken back doors, cut corners, and
> of course the lab rats. Those get no respect in our
> house. We need people who can identify and resolve
> problems in large production environment very
> quickly, /w the knowledge and work experience in
> those environments that firmly stand behind the
> underlying technologies (principals engineers). I
> have seen problems, where people were unsure and
> caused a few thousand phones to be unavailable, I've
> seen "know it alls -paper...engineer" implement toll
> bypass and cause a world of problems. Sometimes the
> CCIE identifies those individuals, sometimes it
> doesn't -although very rare*
>
> Closing, you guys may kick me off this list for
> saying all of that, I don't care. -Make sure you
> post it* The CCIE program is very hard, very
> rewarding, and should still be valued at the top.
> Those of you considering this program, re-evaluate
> where you are in life technically, how much time you
> have in your life..and for you lab rats, how deep
> are your pockets* I'm still broke from taking that
> first lab attempt, failure is not an option for me
> the second time around financially nor mentally*
>
>
> Anthony Hoyle
> EDS
> WAN Infrastructure Analyst
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com
> [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of Jason
> Graun
> Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2003 2:37 AM
> To: 'Thomas Larus'; 'Erlend Ringstad';
> ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: RE: Finally #12534
>
>
> That is a good question who is Halabi anyway?! Also
> I heard about this Doyle guy what is the big deal
> with him, what did he do?
>
> Thanks
>
> CCIE #150,000
>
> P.S. I am not sorry for being a dick, and yes there
> are lab rat CCIE's
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com
> [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of Thomas
> Larus
> Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 8:12 PM
> To: Erlend Ringstad; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: Re: Finally #12534
>
> Did I miss some message that would make this message
> from Erlen Ringstad make sense?
>
> Standing alone it would appear to be nonsense, so
> there must be some other message that would put it
> in context so that it would make sense.
>
>
> Tom Larus, CCIE #10,014
> Author of CCIE Warm-Up: Advice and Learning Labs
>
http://www.ipexpert.com/products_services/product.asp?sku=ip7777
> tlarus@ipexpert.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
=== message truncated ===
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
http://companion.yahoo.com/
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.4 : Fri Dec 12 2003 - 12:29:15 GMT-3