From: Yasser Aly (blackyeyes00@hotmail.com)
Date: Sat Nov 22 2003 - 11:04:18 GMT-3
Dear All,
Let me begin by saying that I see no relevance with how much expert you are
for passing the CCIE lab.
Many of us are working in very challenging environments, facing real
problems that make people sweat, yet, these problems we tackle are real
problems looking for good solutions - not fancy ones that you might have
been asked to do in the lab -.
Passing the lab or not - in my openion - needs the following:
1-Being a lab rat - to practice everything - and not rely only on your
experience, as you will be asked to do non-common tasks with non-common
solutions-.
2- Working experience - though it didn't save many from failling the 1st
time -
3- Deep pocket - either yours or your company - but this certificate really
needs from anyone who wants it to spend a lot on equipment, commercial
scenarios, and lab fees - including transportation and accomodation that in
many cases means doubling each trial cost -.
I have been working with many CCIE's - some working with Cisco itself -,
those guys are awosome and when you discuss any technical topic with them
makes you think they are like network gods. Yet, all their experience
working with Cisco TAC didn't save them, some made it from the 2nd trial,
others even made it from the 3rd one. Some of them are escilation engineers.
I remember oneday while discussing with my boss - who is a CCIE and
X-Cisco - purchasing a commercial scenarios to practice on. He refused that
the company pays for this and he inisits that this is cheating. I never
managed to convince him otherwise. His approach was to practice every
command one by one and try to build himself scenarios to practice. His
approach costs him 3 lab trials till he passed regardless of how expert he
was. I decicded to make it easier for me - as I am sponsering myself and my
budget can't handle except passing from the 1st time - so I purchsed one of
the commercial ones and honestly speaking, without these labs it would be
almost impossible to pass, not becasue of my weakness but because the lab
itself is not real and not asking you to solve a problem with the logical
ways happened in real life.
Taking all above into consideration, still if you want your golden number
you have to play the game with Cisco rules. Otherwise, save your effort and
time to your family. I am just trying to make my point that though I hate
how this is going on, yet, I have to play the game with its rules - if I am
intrested to get my number -.
Peace for all and let's get back to study how to force an ant make love with
an elephant while reducing unnecessary broadcast traffic.
Regards,
Yasser
>From: "Hoyle, Anthony (AL)" <ALHoyle@dow.com>
>Reply-To: "Hoyle, Anthony (AL)" <ALHoyle@dow.com>
>To: "'Jason Graun'" <jgraun@comcast.net>
>CC: "'ccielab@groupstudy.com'" <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
>Subject: RE: Finally #12534 (this one is long)
>Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 08:09:32 -0500
>
>Ok..I gotta cut into you on this one...
>
>I am not a CCIE but there are paper CCIE's out there, hell they are a few
>that I know. I have been a WAN infrastructure Analyst for about 4 years,
>and have been working on this CCIE thing for about three. I happen to be
>lucky enough to work on the biggest network in the world (automaker), as
>well as the biggest voip network in the world (chemical company) -if you
>can think of it I've seen it..-however protocols such as BGP and various
>VPN applications are
>Not as prevalent in big companies as people think. We usually only see the
>EGP stuff at the edge - and deal very little with it. On the other hand I
>have seen call manager problems, MGCP gateway problems, all kind of voice
>problems, routing problems, switching problems, spanning-tree problems that
>will make you sweat... Network problems , DEC and ISIS problems that would
>make your eyes go round in circles..but I still think it is good reference
>to be able to have books like troubleshooting IP telephony, or call manager
>fundamentals, and troubleshooting call managers.
>
>Now, I have to agree, I have Halabi..even though I only read a few pages, I
>have Doyle, and just about every other book you can think of (Cisco press
>only) matter of fact, I can't think of any book I have ever finished
>reading hee hee, It seems like I buy those books, read a little bit, and
>think how silly they are, and start configuring a scenario, or do something
>else with my time...if this is a CCIE out that hasn't read any Cisco press
>books, or hasn't used the doco cd extensively, I would say , you are a
>genius, and have photographic memory...hats off*
>
>My background has been all IT, I worked on a helpdesk for two years,
>desktop/UNIX support for two years, LAN server support for two more and WAN
>for the past four. I see the CCIE program as an applied practice of
>advanced knowledge....Dealing /w my Cisco NSA buddies, I am aware of Cisco
>Systems normal CCIE process (those of you at Cisco can validate this) I
>believe they require two years of field experience before even attempting
>the CCNP track, and an additional two more before even considering the CCIE
>track. We institute that same program here. Another problem I see, are
>people that switch careers to IT, and can't figure out why they have their
>CCNP, but do not understand anything. They can't even fix simple IDSN
>problems, it makes me sick sometimes. ...I remember asking someone to span
>a port for me, they gave the deer in the headlights(co called "ccnp") If
>you can't fix a desktop problem in the registry, how can you fix a complex
>routing problem -that's my persona!
> l take. If you can't grep a file on Solaris box, how can you troubleshoot
>problems on 5509. I may be cutting into you guys, but I have a wife and
>two kids, and this has taken a lot of time in addition to working 12hrs a
>day (but sometimes my job is my lab hee hee hee) -bottom line. I will not
>short change the CCNP program, if conducted and executed correctly (lots of
>labs, work experience combined with deep understanding of the theory behind
>all of the protocols) it can be a very useful certification.
>
>We work on 12000's, 6509's, 3550s(all day), you name it. This does not
>guarantee we will be doing layer two tunneling, or 3550 QOS, but we are
>using tools like QPM, Cisco Works, NetView, Tivoli and a million other SNMP
>tools. I practice all my ATM on IGX's and 1010's. If you can't use
>distributed sniffer to troubleshoot a problem /w clients taking a 1/2 hr to
>logon, how can you troubleshoot OSPF problems, or even EIGRP problems.
>
>Yeah I failed the first time(Nov 6th 2003), I may even fail the second
>time, I will pass one day* But that by any means makes me no lesser then
>the guy that did it the first time. I have done all the boot (different
>vendor) camp labs, I read all of the config guides- and configured examples
>for each scenario, I have read all of the tech tips and setup up the
>scenarios..(but then again I never really sat for that type of test before
>/w time constraints...I ran out of time) I have taken all the CIPT
>training, qos and advanced qos, advanced avvid, matter of fact I hate those
>classes ..although the advanced avvid was challenging...I have read RFCs,
>sometimes reading those "are not fun" but they help.
>
>I don't have a bunch certifications -mcse(94'), ccnp(00') and unix(95')
>from 1994' (of course) -that's it. Hell, I don't even have a master
>degrees, but this is my life, my career, my bread and butter. I place the
>CCIE at the top of my silver pedestal. At this point in my career, I will
>get nothing for accomplishing the CCIE (unless they come up /w level 5
>support hee hee hee) but I will get the satisfaction of overcoming a most
>difficult accomplishment, and placing myself in line for the voice IE.
>
>
>
>You put quote
>
>"The CCIE lab is meant for network engineers with experience.
>Experienced people does not fail on the first attempt. Neither to they
>read all those books quite a few of you are referring too. Who the heck
>is Halabi(?)? I never read him."
>
>
>We have very smart people /w doctorates, more experience, that are heavier
>than me, that have failed the first time. I still go to those people for
>advanced issues, or second opinions. This is not intended directly towards
>anyone in general, but too all of you have taken back doors, cut corners,
>and of course the lab rats. Those get no respect in our house. We need
>people who can identify and resolve problems in large production
>environment very quickly, /w the knowledge and work experience in those
>environments that firmly stand behind the underlying technologies
>(principals engineers). I have seen problems, where people were unsure and
>caused a few thousand phones to be unavailable, I've seen "know it alls
>-paper...engineer" implement toll bypass and cause a world of problems.
>Sometimes the CCIE identifies those individuals, sometimes it doesn't
>-although very rare*
>
>Closing, you guys may kick me off this list for saying all of that, I don't
>care. -Make sure you post it* The CCIE program is very hard, very
>rewarding, and should still be valued at the top. Those of you considering
>this program, re-evaluate where you are in life technically, how much time
>you have in your life..and for you lab rats, how deep are your pockets* I'm
>still broke from taking that first lab attempt, failure is not an option
>for me the second time around financially nor mentally*
>
>
>Anthony Hoyle
>EDS
>WAN Infrastructure Analyst
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
>Jason Graun
>Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2003 2:37 AM
>To: 'Thomas Larus'; 'Erlend Ringstad'; ccielab@groupstudy.com
>Subject: RE: Finally #12534
>
>
>That is a good question who is Halabi anyway?! Also I heard about this
>Doyle guy what is the big deal with him, what did he do?
>
>Thanks
>
>CCIE #150,000
>
>P.S. I am not sorry for being a dick, and yes there are lab rat CCIE's
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
>Thomas Larus
>Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 8:12 PM
>To: Erlend Ringstad; ccielab@groupstudy.com
>Subject: Re: Finally #12534
>
>Did I miss some message that would make this message from Erlen Ringstad
>make sense?
>
>Standing alone it would appear to be nonsense, so there must be some other
>message that would put it in context so that it would make sense.
>
>
>Tom Larus, CCIE #10,014
>Author of CCIE Warm-Up: Advice and Learning Labs
>http://www.ipexpert.com/products_services/product.asp?sku=ip7777
>tlarus@ipexpert.com
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Erlend Ringstad" <erlend@ringstad.no>
>To: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
>Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 8:28 PM
>Subject: RE: Finally #12534
>
>
> > > There is no easy way! There are no shortcuts!
> >
> > The CCIE lab is ment for network engineers with experience.
> > Experienced people does not fail on the first attempt. Neither to they
> > read all those books quite a few of you are refering too. Who the heck
> > is Halabi(?)? I never read him.
> >
> > > CCIE #12534
> >
> > Sorry for beeing a dick; but welcome to the paper-CCIE club.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Erlend Ringstad
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________________
> > _
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>
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