From: amilabs (amilabs@optonline.net)
Date: Mon Nov 10 2003 - 10:00:24 GMT-3
Wasn't there a 4 to 6 week camp for ccie offered by one of theses
companies? Or maybe I was thinking ccna/np/da/dp?
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
Scott Morris
Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 7:54 AM
To: 'ccie2be'; 'Group Study'; 'George He'
Subject: RE: New CCIE #12483
You are absolutely correct, which is almost the misnomer of calling them
a bootcamp... (Marketing, whaddya want?) You should never expect to go
to a class, learn things for the first time and become an expert on
them. Not in a 1-week class anyway! There's no way! Now, if we
created a 6-8 week bootcamp, AND if you were a really good student...
Bootcamps, or shall we simply call them CCIE Lab Prep courses, as you
say are designed to reinforce that which you already know. They should
be taught by someone who has been through things before and knows the
ins and outs not just from a technical perspective, but from the
psychological perspective. Not being intimidated by the exam is a huge
step (easier said than done though!)
Any course should be used to "fill in the blanks" that way you get much
more out of it. When I teach a class, while yes, I can impart a LOT of
information to the students, there is no way for it to all be absorbed.
I target the "light bulbs", where if I can make things click better and
all-of-a-sudden the student understands things they may have previously
just memorized, then I'm doing well...
But if you come to a class expecting to learn it all in a compressed
period of time, you will simply end up tired and likely disappointed.
Take a class to assess yourself. Take it to understand that which you
already know.
Yes, you can pass the lab without taking a class. Often your
"investment" (time is money, you know) will turn out to be more than you
would have spent on a class that would assist with the learning. But
everyone has to make their own decision on things, just hopefully for
the right reason!
Scott Morris, CCIE4 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service Provider) #4713,
CISSP, JNCIS, et al. IPExpert CCIE Program Manager IPExpert Sr.
Technical Instructor swm@emanon.com/smorris@ipexpert.net
http://www.ipexpert.net
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
ccie2be
Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2003 9:52 PM
To: Group Study; George He
Subject: Re: New CCIE #12483
George,
Although training classes can be very helpful especially the various
"ccie bootcamps" that are now available, it's my personal feeling that
these classes can't by themselves get anyone to the point of passing the
lab. And, that's not because these classes don't give you all the info
that's needed but rather it's impossible for anyone to truly absord all
the info they give you. Most of these classes are structured form 9 to
5 and later, Monday to Friday. In that 40+ hours, a tremendous amount
of info is thrown at you. Unless almost all of that technical info
they're giving you is already in your head, there's just too much to
absord.
But, on the other hand, if you already have almost all the knowledge and
expertise needed for the exam, these classes can help re-inforce what
you learned earlier and perhaps clarify some things that you may have
become fuzzy on or never fully understood. And, for that they can be of
great value. They can also provide you with a much better sense of how
far or close you are to being ready for the real thing and they can also
provide you with a very good sense of where you're weak and need more
knowledge or practice. They can also give you valuable test taking
strategies.
So, my point is that you can definately pass the lab without taking
classes. If you have the time and money these classes can get you closer
to being ready to pass the exam, but if you don't, you can still learn
and practice enough on your own to pass the lab.
Of course, these are only my opinions. Take them for what they're
worth.
HTH, dt
----- Original Message -----
From: "George He" <georgeh@adstream.com.au>
To: "Jonathan V Hays" <jhays@jtan.com>; <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2003 8:43 PM
Subject: RE: New CCIE #12483
> Hi Jonathan,
>
> Thanks.
>
> My situation is: My salary was/is not high. So I want to know if it is
> possible to pass Lab without class--should be ok I guess but want to
> be confirmed. I have 3 years experience on Cisco's device, but failed
> my first attempt. I am very busy on my job, so I don't have enough
> time to practice. I think probably I have to use 1 year to try my next
> Lab?
>
> I think that I tried my best on this topic but time and money is not
> enough for me :-)
>
> Regards
>
> George
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jonathan V Hays [mailto:jhays@jtan.com]
> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 12:21 PM
> To: George He
> Subject: RE: New CCIE #12483
>
> Hi George,
>
> I think you forgot to address this to the list, since I see only my
> name in the To: list.
>
> As far as "too expensive" that depends on your personal goals. I have
> been a network engineer and administrator since 1992 and rarely has
> the company EVER paid for any of my training. I pay for it myself. But
> I am more motivated than you are, I guess.
>
> Jonathan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: George He [mailto:georgeh@adstream.com.au]
> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2003 7:42 PM
> To: Jonathan V Hays
> Subject: RE: New CCIE #12483
>
>
> Congratulations!
>
> Is any one passed the CCIE without any classes? It's too expensive for
> me if I can not get pay from company.
>
> Regards
>
> George
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jonathan V Hays [mailto:jhays@jtan.com]
> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 3:21 AM
> To: 'MCDONALD, ROMAN (SBCSI)'; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: RE: New CCIE #12483
>
> Congratulations!
>
> BTW, I didn't know that Paul taught classes. Can you post a link?
>
> Jonathan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
> Of MCDONALD, ROMAN (SBCSI)
> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2003 11:01 AM
> To: 'ccielab@groupstudy.com'
> Subject: New CCIE #12483
>
>
> Well, I managed to pass the darn thing - first attempt.
>
> Thanks to everyone that assisted me (especially Paul).
>
> Study materials (in order of importance):
>
> - Routing TCP/IP Vol I & II - I read them both 3 times, cover to
> cover. Also read certain chapters 5 times or more.
> - Caslow's Book - Second Edition - good for certain topics that aren't
> covered well by Solie
> - CCIE Practical Studies - just good for filling in the gaps, don't
> consider this your bible.
>
> Classes taken (both taught by Paul Borghese and worth every penny):
>
> CCIE - Routing and Switching
> CCIE - Foundations
>
> Lab time:
>
> More than any of this, what this took was 30-40 hrs of lab study per
> week for 3-4 months. You've got to drill this stuff into your head
> and get faster. I used a lab that consisted of 13 routers and 2
> switches. I had
> real ISDN, voice, atm, etc...... leave nothing out! Practice
everything
> you
> read until you not only can configure it but understand it!
>
> Know the core topics inside and out (hence my incessant reading and
> practicing via Doyle's superbly written books).
>
> Know the DOC CD inside and out - it's the only thing that'll save you
> when you hit those 2-4 questions that you just don't have a freakin'
> clue about.
>
> Stay calm!!
>
> Roman McDonald ~ CCIE #12483
>
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