From: Dave Swink \(dswink\) (dswink@cisco.com)
Date: Thu Oct 23 2003 - 14:35:59 GMT-3
I agree with most of your points. After failing, I too, angrily thought
Cisco was being unfair and close-minded to various approaches to solving
a problem. But in the months studying for my next attempt, I would
repeatedly gain new insights that allowed me to understand why my
solutions were actually incorrect.
I understand and can relate to bitter feelings after failing a lab, but
I think when you achieve a very good understanding of the technologies
and protocols, the tasks will usually be worded to allow only one
specific solution. My experience was that when more than one
configuration would truly fill the requirement, the proctor would
provide guidance if you could demonstrate a through understanding of the
options.
As for making public old labs, creating a good lab is very expensive,
and I would think that parts of old exams would be recycled into the new
ones. Removing that option would make creating new labs more expensive.
Dave Swink, CCIE #11678
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
ccie2be
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 7:42 PM
To: Richard L. Pickard; 'Deluzio, Jamey A (Jamey)';
ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: Re: CCIE grading script
Hi all,
Normally, I don't chime in on these discussions - I'm too busy doing
practice labs or other lab prep, but I felt this talk of "The Cisco Way"
is getting out of hand.
Personally, I don't believe there's such a thing as "The Cisco Way". If
the exam asks you to filter a route, you can thing of multiple ways to
accomplish this task and the lab doesn't prohibit you from using any of
the methods that accomplish that task, you will get credit for that task
if it works properly regardless of the method you use.
The problem, IMHO, is that there might be another task or requirement
which precludes one or more of the methods you've thought of and thereby
implicitly prevent the use of a particular method. The key I think to
success on this exam, besides, of course, knowing how to configure a
vast number of things, is READING THE REQUIREMENTS CAREFULLY.
Suppose you're required to provide an alternative means of connectivity
in case a F/R circuit fails between 2 routers. One's initial response
might be, "OK, this is no biggie. I'll just do a back up interface".
If that's what you do, I suspect you'll lose some points even though
that approach appears to be completely reasonable. And, the reason
you'll lose some points is that the back up interface command monitors
the physical interface specified. Well, the physical interface might be
working perfectly but there's still lose of connectivity between the 2
routers because something within the frame relay cloud failed. In this
case, the backup interface approach won't work. Although you were never
told to use dialer watch, you lost points because you either didn't
realize exactly how backup interface works or you didn't read the
requirement carefully enough. You might have known how to configure
dialer watch and you might have even practiced it before the lab but you
still lost points because you didn't see you needed to implement this
method.
Now, before anyone thinks I'm violating the nda, let me just say, I made
this example up off the top of my head. I have no idea whether something
like this is on the exam and it's been over 2 years since my last
attempt. But, I can easily imagine points being lost for something
analagous to this example.
I suspect the exam and it's scoring isn't perfect but I also suspect
that the number of people who don't pass the exam because of
imperfections in the exam or it's scoring is very, very small. That
said, given the cost and effort most of us make to prepare for this
exam, any imperfection in the exam or it's scoring is unacceptable.
And, where such cases are discovered, Cisco should provide, at a
minimum, 2 free lab retakes.
Personally, I believe Cisco should also make public a limited number of
previous recent exams. If law students and accountants are allowed to
see previous bar and cpa exams why shouldn't ccie candidates be allowed
access to a similar resource?
Thinking about or trying to figure out "The Cisco Way" I firmly believe
is just a waste of time and mental bandwidth. After knowing how to
configure a gazillion things flawlessly, the most important key to
success is READING THE REQUIREMENTS CAREFULLY AND MAKING SURE YOU
UNDERSTAND WHAT THE INSTRUCTIONS ARE ASKING YOU TO DO. If you're not
sure what the instructions are asking you to do, ask the proctor if he
can clarify them. While he probably won't answer your question, he may
say something that's helpful.
for what it's worth, that's my 3 cents.
dt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard L. Pickard" <nettable_walker@comcast.net>
To: "'Deluzio, Jamey A (Jamey)'" <deluzio@avaya.com>;
<ccielab@groupstudy.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 8:27 PM
Subject: RE: CCIE grading script
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
> Of Deluzio, Jamey A (Jamey)
> Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 4:36 PM
> To: ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: RE: CCIE grading script
>
> I think there are some significant problems with the way the labs are
> graded and the "Cisco Way". For the money we spend I don't think that
> a rescore should even be an option because the test should be graded
> correctly the 1st time. I know that rescores rarely come back as a
> pass but quite often I believe they come back with more points added.
>
> On top of that I've seen numerous e-mails where people admit they
> received credit on sections that they did not attempt or complete or
> received impossible percentages based on the values of the questions
> in the section.
>
> There was also a thread here
> (http://www.groupstudy.com/archives/ccielab/200307/msg01786.html)
> where someone proved to Cisco that there was a flaw in the lab he was
> given and he was able to retake the lab at no cost. I wonder if they
> contacted anyone else who had received the faulty lab and offered to
> let them retake the test (I'm sure at least some of the people
> attempted to work with the proctor on the faulty section and were just
> told to "re-read the question".
>
> I apologize if I sound bitter but for the price we deserve an honest
> test and an accurate score report that actually means something.
> Passing the CCIE Lab is a huge accomplishment and very valuable but I
> feel that Cisco has lost site of the fact that their certification
> tests are products and we the test takers are customers.
>
>
> Jamey
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: k c [mailto:jwongccie@yahoo.com.hk]
> Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 5:09 AM
> To: seonghui; 'Kaiser Anwar'; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: RE: CCIE grading script
>
> How do we know the Cisco-way? Heard many times that if our
> configurations don't match the Cisco's answer, then we may get wrong
> even we meet the target. Is the Cisco-way already hidden in the
> question and we don't understand the Cisco-word? For example, if Cisco
> expects "NAT" is the final solution, but we use another method to
> complete the request, will we lose mark? It is not fair if no hints
> can be found in the questions?
>
> Tan Chai Heng <tanch@kuala-lumpur.sns.slb.com> wrote:Hi SeongHui,
>
> "I think the most important thing to pass the exam is not only getting
> the configurations work, but you must meet certain criterias or ways
> of configuring the lab that cisco expects you to do...I call it the
> 'cisco-way'."
>
> What do you mean by the "Cisco way"?
>
> Thanks!
> CH
>
>
> At 03:50 PM 9/25/2003, seonghui wrote:
> >Hi Anwar,
> >
> >I had the chance of talking to the proctor in Sydney during lunch
> >time
> and
> >raised the same question to him. He told me that the script is a very
> >intelligent program 'custom made' to mark the different labs.
> >According
> to
> >him, this script acts as a helper to them to do some ping, pick up
> >the routes in the routing table, check the necessary protocols,
> >commands
> etc.
> >
> >However, if the script marks wrong for certain sections, the proctor
> will
> >personally look at those sections. If it makes sense to him and
> >thinks
> that
> >your config is ok, he will award you the point. However, if it is a
> rescore,
> >your config will be loaded by a proctor in another location, and he
> will
> >manually mark the config without running the script.
> >
> >The above was the answer from the proctor in Sydney. He is a very
> >nice, helpful and friendly guy. I believe the marking system is fair
> >and accurate...eventhough i didn't make it to pass on the first
> >attempt. I
> think
> >the most important thing to pass the exam is not only getting the
> >configurations work, but you must meet certain criterias or ways of
> >configuring the lab that cisco expects you to do...I call it the
> >'cisco-way'.
> >
> >regards - SH
>
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